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Denying AIDS: Conspiracy Theories, Pseudoscience, and Human Tragedy

Seeking Stories of AIDS Denialism

Have you or someone you know been harmed by AIDS Denialism? If you, or someone you care about, have been advised to stop taking HIV meds, ignore HIV test results, purchase a 'natural' cure etc., please email me.

aidsandbehavior@yahoo.com

All information will be kept confidential.

Friday, April 16, 2010

Is Peter Duesberg Finally Paying His Dues?

Exclusive:
AIDS Scientist 
Investigated for 
Misconduct
After Complaint



by Greg Miller on April 16, 2010, Science Insider 

UPDATE: Huffington Post / Daily Californian pick up the story:UC Berkeley Professor Under Investigation For Controversial AIDS Article; 
Statement by Nathan Geffen on Complaint Against Peter Duesberg 

University of California, Berkeley, professor of molecular and cell biology Peter Duesberg tells ScienceInsider that he is the subject of a misconduct investigation launched by the university. Duesberg has been a controversial figure for decades because of his vocal skepticism that HIV is the cause of AIDS. But he says this is the first time he has ever been investigated for misconduct, and ScienceInsider has learned that an AIDS activist may have helped initiate the investigation.



The charges apparently stem from a paper Duesberg and four colleagues published last summer in Medical Hypotheses that challenged the assertion that HIV has caused massive loss of life due to AIDS, and more specifically, disputed a 2008 study arguing that hundreds of thousands of lives have been lost in South Africa because of delays in distributing antiretroviral drugs (ARVs). Under pressure from AIDS researchers, Elsevier, the journal's publisher, withdrew the paper and told its editor to either implement a peer-review process or hand in his resignation

The university would neither confirm nor deny that Duesberg is under investigation, but he forwarded a letter to ScienceInsider, signed by university Vice Provost Sheldon Zedeck and dated 18 November 2009, that says the university has appointed a faculty member to investigate allegations it received. According to this letter:
The specific allegations are that an article you submitted to Medical Hypotheses was investigated and then withdrawn by the publisher based on issues of credibility and false claims. The allegations also state that you failed to declare a relevant conflict of interest with regard to the commercial interests of your co-authors.
Duesberg says he heard nothing more until last week, when he received an e-mail from the university's investigator, epidemiologist Art Reingold, requesting a meeting to discuss the allegations. Duesberg says he declined to meet until he receives more information about the charges against him. According to the university's faculty code of conduct, disciplinary actions can range from a written reprimand to salary reduction to dismissal.
In response to Duesberg's request, Reingold sent him two letters of complaint the university received in August 2009. The authors' names are redacted, but ScienceInsider confirmed one of them is Nathan Geffen of Treatment Action Campaign, an advocacy group in South Africa.
Geffen says his chief concern is an undeclared conflict of interest. "In particular, there is no mention in theMedical Hypotheses article that [co-author] David Rasnick worked with Matthias Rath, a vitamin salesman, and that the basis of their business model was to claim that vitamins, not ARVs, treat AIDS," Geffen says. (Rath was not an author on the Medical Hypotheses paper.) This information about Rasnick was not disclosed in the paper, but it should have been, Geffen says. And as first author, Duesberg should have taken responsibility, he says.
Rasnick says he worked as a salaried senior scientist with Rath's nonprofit foundation in South Africa from March 2005 to July 2006. But he says he currently has "no financial interest whatever" in the Dr. Rath Health Foundation.
Given that Rasnick stopped working with Rath almost 3 years before the Medical Hypotheses paper was published, Duesberg says, "I don't see that there was a conflict of interest." Duesberg is convinced that the allegations stem from a desire to censor his unpopular views. "There is clearly some movement to get rid of any dissent against the HIV-AIDS hypothesis," he says.

70 comments:

  1. At http://www.tig.org.za/index.php?topic=35.msg60#msg60

    Rod Knoll writes:
    "...
    Suffice it to say, Duesberg possesses a profound level of chutzpah. For
    years, he has hypocritically exhibited precisely the same behavior in his
    dealings with (or lack thereof) the Perth Group that he is constantly
    lamenting in the AIDS industry's dealings with him. Most recently,
    Duesberg's partisans in the Rethinking AIDS group, led by clueless Crowe and
    fellow buffoon David Rasnick conspired to keep the issue of the lack of
    proof of "HIV" off the agenda for their "RA 2009" conference which proved to
    be  huge BOMB. Any literate, astute AIDS dissident with half a brain in his
    or her head knows that the lack of proof of purification of "HIV" is the
    central issue facing dissidents, and it's the Achilles heel of the AIDS
    industry.

    It's high time that hypocrite and chicken shit Duesberg either "man-up",
    stop lying and ducking the issue of "HIV's" non-isolation, or retire from
    the dissident movement, his tail forever between his legs for repeatedly
    refusing to face facts about his stance on this crucial issue.
    ..."

    ReplyDelete
  2. The only thing I'd point out as well is that Duesberg is NOT an "AIDS Scientist".

    ReplyDelete
  3. More Crap from SethApril 16, 2010 at 11:08 PM

    So we look in to the story and find that the actual complaint, which comes from the South African Treatment Action Campaign which receives copious pharmaceutical funding, is actually about David Rasnick failing to disclose a conflict of interest that had ceased 3 years previously with Mathias Rath.

    Nothing about the actual content of the paper itself. Just another example of you TRUTHERS twisting and sensationalising the facts from a self generated complaint. I'd bet if Duesberg had an unpaid parking fine you'd headline it as;

    "AIDS DENIALIST IN CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION".

    It may satisy your twisted ends, but it doesn't hold water.

    How about an expose' on the 6 fake journals Elsevier published that were pharmaceutical advertisments? Not a word.

    How about the the fact that none of Andrew Wakefield's actual research could be found false, but you attacked on the basis of dubious ethics, even though the parents of the children were consenting. Unlike the orphans in the Incarnation House of Horrors, force fed AZT through gastric tubes, according to you that's ethical science.

    What about the countless "Ghost Written" papers from medical writing companies funded by pharmaceutical companies. Nada, zip.

    Your admissions of being paid to run this blog through your university work, which is indirectly paid for by NIH and Pharmaceutical grants, is just tickety boo and dandy though. No conflicts going on here guys.

    Your Bias is shameless, which only serves to highlight your true agenda, which has nothing to do with public health whatsoever. You self serve an industry that is in reality comitting genocide in Africa.

    My only "Denial", is that you possess any sense of moral or ethical values.

    Seth Kalichman? more like Seth Amin.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Someone please slip this guy his Thorazine before his paranoia bores us all to death.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Good news about Duesberg. Let's hope its a contructive enquiry that uncovers the real motives of the AIDS denialist clique.

    I hope that TAC go after the appalling "emeritus professor" Gordon Stewart, and that Glasgow University take some action in recognition of this man's contribution to the AIDS catastrophy in South Africa.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Frank must be working for Glaxo Smith Kline. Just can't help himself getting a plug in for Thorazine, one of their psych drugs. A freudian slip from the marketing boys.

    Now this blog is doing product placements, like at the movies. What next, Pepsi?

    As for "jonnyneviripine", your namesake drug viramune was really good for Joyce Ann Hafford. But then her death certificate no doubt lists complications due to AIDS. The complication being that she was given a toxic drug.

    Bravo.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Dude, Why post comments as anonymous? Afraid the Glaxo-Boogie-Man will come after you and put AZT in you green tea?

    And by the way, Pepsi is not next. No product placements here. Now pardon me, I have to run to Starbucks and grab a pound of (Red)Coffee from Africa-For Africa.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Nice post, thanks for sharing this wonderful and useful information with us.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Mikey!
    I thought you had died of a radical detox or something! It is nice that you are back ranting like a crazy bastard. Too bad you had to do it as a fraudulent JTD. I usually automatically post anything from JTD... so it went undetected until our insanity filter picked you up.
    Anyway, see if Clark will share his Thorazine with you. It really will help.

    ReplyDelete
  10. I like how on the Duesberg investigation comments section at science mag, Clarkie Baker, aka "Smoke Sustiva" claims that Delaney died of liver cancer caused by "toxic antiretrovirals" and posts his obituary.

    In typical Clarkie fashion, he didn't read his own article. Delaney was HIV NEGATIVE, and never took HIV medicine, but he actually had Hepatitis B.

    When pointed out to him...silence.

    Typical denialist behavior.

    Methinks Clarkie doth protest too much.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Clarkie's Narcissism to New Levels:

    New claims on his blog:

    Even in San Francisco’s notorious Castro District, HIV is only killing junkies and those who ingest HIV drugs that, among other things, compromise liver function, cause cancer and drive people to kill themselves or others. Despite being identified as HIV+ 20 years ago, anomalies like Magic Johnson are alive and well, thanks to his refusal to take HIV drugs – and to companies that pay him to push testing and drugs within racially-targeted black communities

    Comprised of scientists, physicians, legal experts and investigators who cannot be bought by the pharmaceutical industry, OMSJ is now involved in more than 30 criminal and civil cases throughout the US and Canada.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Sorry - don't mean to cause any trouble, but I just have a couple of questions about this "Clark Baker."
    Where did he go to college again? What are some of the "30" cases he is involved with? Who are the "scientists. physicians. legal experts" who are part of his "group"?

    ReplyDelete
  13. The denialist crazies are fake posting as me, poodle, snout, fulano etc...

    Very sad but gives much validity to their crazy persona!
    JTD

    ReplyDelete
  14. I heard that Clark Baker was fired from the LAPD for beating up an old man. I also hear that his primary job now is changing Peter Duesberg's old-man diaper and cleaning up his dribble. Pretty ironic!

    ReplyDelete
  15. Anonymous
    Clark Baker did not go to college. That is why he thinks David Crowe, who as 2 BS degrees, is a genius!

    ReplyDelete
  16. That you could post the "Fake" Deshongs ranting diatribe complete with references to hitler, firing squads and gulags amply displays your blind adherence to dogma.

    The screen shots will make interesting reading elsewhere.

    ReplyDelete
  17. You seem to think anyone cares. Maybe what, 3 people?

    ReplyDelete
  18. That you could post the "Fake" Deshongs ranting diatribe complete with references to hitler, firing squads and gulags amply displays your blind adherence to dogma. The screen shots will make interesting reading elsewhere.

    Ah yes, when you can't back your silly little beliefs with science, simply try to make the other guy look bad. Very legit science there.

    In case anyone sees such denialist stupidity, simply hover the mouse over the Poodle Stomper name. If it doesn't say:

    http://www.blogger.com/profile/14071485010133858924

    Then it is not me. Suck it denialidiots!

    ReplyDelete
  19. Wow-
    shows how desperate the denialists are. They are intellectually assasinated on virtually ever online forum they post, so they try and desperately save face by trying to "assume" the identities of those who crush them over and over again! Pretty nutty! But I guess what can you expect from people who listen to the nonsense of Clark Baker and Celia Farber.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Poodle Stomper

    "Ah yes, when you can't back your silly little beliefs with science, simply try to make the other guy look bad. Very legit science there."

    You lot invented the Ad Hominem attack, don't like the taste of your own medicine? (nice pun). This very blog posting we're on is a fine example.

    Spin it any way you want moron, but there's some blogs now wondering who the idiot Poodle Stomper is.

    Your God Moore said there are no rules, practice what you preach fuckwit. Right back at ya.

    Bwaahahahahahaha

    ReplyDelete
  21. Seems timely for a little context.

    Someone (and I honestly do not know who) created a Facebook Page as Clark Baker and posted lots of nasty (although looked mostly true) stuff about Clark.

    He/She tried to make me a 'friend' on the Facebook account.

    I thought it was actually Clark Baker and said F#@k off.

    Then I had a change of heart, and accepted the friend thing. That is when I chimed in and had some fun.

    In the mean time, Clarkie had it removed as obvious fraud. (I wish I could see his emails to Facebook explaining what was true and what was not... I think a case could be made for its genuineness).

    The Facebook account was removed and so I too removed the comments that referenced it.

    The whole ordeal must have ticked off Clark or we would not see his 'partner' (hmmmm) Michael Geiger creating a fake JTD account in blogger to post from it.

    The lesson here is that anytime denialists are confronted they take the information or in this case 'tactic' and turn it against you. They do the same thing when they turn science into denialist propaganda. In Denying AIDS I talk about this as 'turning the tables'.

    That is what is going here and frankly I do not see it as a big deal. I am actually waiting for the Seth Kalichman or Joe Newton pseudo-identities - should be fun and increase i-exposure to the idiots.


    Thanks Michael and Clark.

    ReplyDelete
  22. The One Who Created the Baker Facebook PageApril 18, 2010 at 10:47 AM

    Just out of curiosity:
    What are Michael Geiger's qualifications in immunology?

    ReplyDelete
  23. People like Clarkie Baker cry "Pharma-Slut" with no evidence at all. Then they go and peddle vitamin supplements on the Robert Scott Bell show and other shows. Hypocrisy or stupidity? I think both - and unintentional at that.

    The more you look at the denialists, the more ridiculous they reveal themselves to be. On the one hand, you have educated scientists, researchers, physicians, and professors. On the other you have fired ex-cops with no college degree, fake journalists who have been lambasted internationally who live off daddy's handouts, and UFO/Loch Ness fanatics.

    Who would you rather trust your health to? If you say, "your doctor" you would have made a more wise decision than Christine Maggiore and Kim Bannon. Even in death, Maggiore's fake autopsy was entrusted to a.......veterinarian....

    ReplyDelete
  24. "What are Michael Geiger's qualifications in immunology?"

    He has an immune system. Or at least he thinks he does.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Guess what? I missed the Nazi Post that was supposed to be from me. Where can I see it? It sounds like fun!

    I also wonder why Geiger would come out of the woodwork for such a lame attempt? Are we sure it was Geiger?

    Whoever created fake profiles and posted at my blog is posting from Mountainview, California....or else they are using a fake IP address from there. These are very extreme examples of ad hominem attacks! And very pathetic as well! If these people can not see the real damage they are doing to the denialists' credibility all the way around, then they are definitely living in denial.
    JTD

    ReplyDelete
  26. JTD
    Allow me the honors.

    First we have to remember that the whole point of this blog, and Denyinig AIDS for that matter, is to show how insane AIDS Denialists are.

    That is why this thread remains relevant to this post.

    These are the same people who follow the way of Duesberg. He hosts conferences for them (with video to prove it), tries to publish papers with them, accepts funding for his lab from them, etc. It is exactly why UC Berkeley needs to get rid of Duesberg -revoke his tenure and ban him from campus.

    Now JTD, here is the comment. It comes from someone who not only posted as you but created a blogger account using you blogger picture (the puppy picture). It was posted by Michael, he has a signature line embedded. So Michael and Clark are, well, in bed together on this...
    Here you go...
    +++++++++++++++++

    jtdeshong has left a new comment on your post "Is Peter Duesberg Finally Paying His Dues?":

    "More Crap from Seth"

    Thorazine for this loser? arsenic would be better for this Douchebag, Chickenshit, Paranoid, Delusional fucking clown? They should take all Denialists out and shoot them up against the wall at the town square.

    They are no better than the guards at Auschwitz shovelling their own in to the crematoriums while denying that there are any flames in there.

    Maybe Hitler had it right, they could have at least gotten rid of Denialists in a hurry and saved us the pain of trying to explain real science to them day after day.

    Bwahahahahahahahaha, gas chamber for you Duesberg, Gallows for you Rasnick.

    How about a Denialist Gulag? in outer Siberia, let's see you practice Denialism with your frost bitten fingers now!

    I just wish the TAC had a militant arm that could send out Denialist Hit Squads to "Scientifcally Cleanse" the planet of these douchebags once and for all, fuck them all to hell.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Anonymous,
    You lot invented the Ad Hominem attack, don't like the taste of your own medicine? (nice pun). This very blog posting we're on is a fine example."

    Really? I may openly mock denialists that possess no scientific knowledge and yet try to pretend they know everything but I do it under my own pseudonym. I also make it very clear that if they ever have an honest question (devoid on conspiracy theories and other denialist BS) that there are many of us here more than happy to answer it without sarcasm.

    "Spin it any way you want moron, but there's some blogs now wondering who the idiot Poodle Stomper is."

    Oh I just bet there are. All 2 denialists out there too stupid to wonder why the time stamps on the messages are all mere minutes apart when Snout, JT, Seth and I all live in different time zones and vastly different schedules. Sorry but I don't think it takes a rocker scientist to see through your pathetic attempt.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Geiger sounds not just delusional but desperately in need of some psychiatric help. What a scary/odd man!

    ReplyDelete
  29. It's awfully short for a Geiger rant. And what about stress? Maybe he is moving onto a new theory and leaving his tired, stressed out stress theory behind! hehe

    I am so humbled how badly they all want to be me!

    And Baker wants to be me AND be with me! Did you see where he posted as "White Settlement, TX" on the Duesberg piece? hahaa

    They both probably have blow up dolls with my face on them!
    JTD

    ReplyDelete
  30. "Dr. Duke":

    First, thank you for the "plug", I guess, in the very first comment above ( http://denyingaids.blogspot.com/2010/04/is-duesberg-getting-his-due-again.html?showComment=1271455133686#c6903736543059007399 ). However, can you identify yourself? Claus Jensen has already confirmed that he did not make the post above as "Dr. Duke". Can you kindly tell me who you are and why you link your profile name to Jensen's "Questions for Prof. Duesberg" document ( http://www.tig.org.za/Jensen_Questions_for_Duesberg.pdf )?

    ReplyDelete
  31. Wow- the Poodle Stomper impostor has shown what a complete idiot he is!! Hilarious!!!!
    Impostor- please- can you honor me as well with your wasted time? Please impersonate me as well! Don't leave me out!!!

    ReplyDelete
  32. Back to Duesberg and this post... in case you are not following it...the Science Insider website (linked above), is developing an interesting thread. Duesberg has commented. I gave him some sincere advise... But I am sure he will not take it.. his legacy as a great mind gone mad seems sealed. And someone let Rasnick out of his rubber room to comment. I hope a keyboard is not considered a sharp object...and his mouse is wireless...

    ReplyDelete
  33. There is a great 60 Minutes piece this evening on the modern snake oil salesmen like Rath and Rasnick. (They use other examples though).

    ReplyDelete
  34. I watched the 60 minutes 2-part piece.
    so should everyone..

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1998/07/08/60minutes/main13502.shtml

    That guy Stowe reminded me of Klaus whatever his name is, the German Doctor who is treating people with vitamins and crap. You know, the one in House of Idiots.

    Maniotis tries to convince people to go to Germany to be cured by these fruitcakes.
    And Farber tells Kim Bannon she needs some time in a healing light machine.

    Maggiore fell into a pit of snake oil as well. Seems like they all do...from Brian Carter on down the line...

    Amazing how AIDS Deniers say we are in this for the money while they convince people to shell out thousands to their quack friends.

    Hello, calling Scott Pelley...

    ReplyDelete
  35. "At least I post under my own pseudonym"

    Do you really know how ridiculous that statement is?

    I myself am happy to be called a chickenshit or whatever by posting anonymously and that is primarily because I have seen how nasty you people get. In that regard I at least have to acknowledge Todd for using his real name. This is either very brave or incredibly stupid and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.

    So Poodle Stomper, if you really want to claim some sort of Blog-Cred, use your real name, I don't expect you to and don't even blame you for not doing it. But please don't attempt to claim a pseudonym has real validity in this context.

    Now to Business and a genuine question;

    If HIV causes AIDS and AIDS is the destruction of the immune system. Why do sufferers of this disease only come down with the specified indicator diseases which are pretty specific to each risk group and not every other disease?

    ReplyDelete
  36. "If HIV causes AIDS and AIDS is the destruction of the immune system. Why do sufferers of this disease only come down with the specified indicator diseases which are pretty specific to each risk group and not every other disease?"

    Thanks for commenting...
    People with AIDS do not just come down with a list of specific conditions and the conditions are not specific to any particular group. People with AIDS are vulnerable to infectious diseases and cancers beyond the AIDS defining conditions. Opportunistic illnesses are not evenly distributed across groups and regions because of prevalence/exposure. For example, people with AIDS In South Africa have a high rate of TB, but that is not because their HIV infection is different, it is because the prevalence, and therefore likelihood of exposure is higher.

    Here are some recent resources related to your question

    http://www.thebody.com/content/prev/art2295.html

    http://aidsinfo.nih.gov/contentfiles/Adult_OI_041009.pdf

    Thanks again

    ReplyDelete
  37. "Anonymous" - the other thing is that HIV causes CD4+ T-helper cell depletion which is a central arm of the immune response. It modulates between antibody-mediated immune responses and cell-mediated immune responses.
    Seth beat me to it with his answer, and he has provided you some great resources to help you understand this. Again, I emphasize that AIDS sufferers do not only come down with specified indicator diseases, as expected with this type of immunity loss.

    I'm also glad you asked that question and I'm sure Seth and Poodle Stomper are as glad as I am to answer it. It is refreshing not to see someone rehash the same old conspiracy theories (like Clark Baker) when they have no understanding of immunology, or, in Clark's case, any science.

    ReplyDelete
  38. "So Poodle Stomper, if you really want to claim some sort of Blog-Cred, use your real name..."

    Nah, I don't particularly need "blog-cred". You see, the data speaks for itself. Whether I use Poodle Stomper or my real name doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is that the data and science in this field refutes your position. I bother to use the same pseudonym so that people can address the comments I leave in the event that they have genuine questions. Sadly this does not apply to most denialists which usually ask questios and, when presented with the answer (and references) simply ignore them and move on because they do not jive with their previous beliefs. Let's see if you do the same:

    "If HIV causes AIDS and AIDS is the destruction of the immune system. Why do sufferers of this disease only come down with the specified indicator diseases which are pretty specific to each risk group and not every other disease?"

    As Seth points out this statement/question is not correct. The diseases to which a person with a failing immune system falls prey depends on which are present in/around that individual. In the early AIDS cases, Kaposi Sarcoma was a key indicator because those patients had a high exposure to HHV8, the virus that causes the disease. However, they weren't the only ones that got it. There are reports of children born with HIV that likewise came down with KS, despite them not fitting into the same risk group (in this case it was being a sexually active homosexual male). It all depends on which diseases you are being exposed to.

    Look at another example of immune suppression; patients with chemotherapy. Herpes simplex can cause problems in patients whose immune systems are depressed due to cancer treatment. However, herpes simplex will not affect those who do not harbor the virus (common sense). It is the same situation.

    Does this make sense? Do you understand why this is logical?

    ReplyDelete
  39. WOW! Post on the Sciencemag site:



    K. Randolph 10 hours ago
    My name is Karl Randolph. I worked with Clark Baker in the valley division of the LAPD during his last 5 years of employment until he was fired (1995-2000). Clark told me, as many other colleagues that he "hated f-gs and Jews". This is the type of person you are dealing with, and this was one of the reasons he had no friends or colleagues who would associate themselves with him. This was also one of the reasons his first wife left him and he is estranged from his children - when I knew them, they were ashamed of him. He was told to get help both at work, and from the judge supervising his case. I urge him to do the same now. He apparently is just as troubled as he was then.

    So, this is the man you are dealing with. A hate-filled person who spends his time espousing misinformation because he has ulterior motives. Be careful - he is very troubled.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Karl
    Thank you for posting your comment here. The only way that we can stop people like Clark Baker from spreading misinformation that can kill people is by exposing them for who they are. Only then can we hope that anyone with any sense will ignore them.
    Clark is actually a minor figure in AIDS Denialism. Like a flea on the rate. Nevertheless, he is a loud one, so it is good to hear from you!
    Thanks again

    ReplyDelete
  41. I still can't get over how applicable that 60mins piece is to the denialists. It is incredible- the commonalities. They make false claims- pseudoscience. They swindle people. When confronted and proven wrong, they ignore facts and persist. One quack- 2 quacks, everywhere a denialist a quack quack.

    ReplyDelete
  42. In response to the post regarding Clark, I thinking it goes without saying that the identity of the poster and his relationship to Clark would have to be confirmed. While it is possible that the post is true, I personally would prefer confirmation before putting any stock in it. You know, science likes reproducibility =)

    ReplyDelete
  43. Good point, Poodle Stomper. However, there is supporting evidence regarding Clark that is verifiable and seems to corroborate what this man said:

    http://articles.latimes.com/1992-07-17/local/me-3703_1_police-officer

    ReplyDelete
  44. I think Karl Randolph is a fake!!

    I googled his name and lapd and every version thereof.

    I think someone is posting fake bullshit and eventhough I hate Clark Baker, whoever this person is is just as big a douchebag, asshole idiot as Baker.

    Let's all just stop with the fake names and made up monikers and just post as one single name and stop this stupid, childish bullshit!!
    JTD

    ReplyDelete
  45. JTD, welcome to the Internet, right?

    Maybe Karl is a fake. Maybe not. Hard to tell. No way to know.

    I did a Denying AIDS book talk/signing the other night and someone asked me how many of these AIDS Denialists are making trouble on the Internet. I said as far as I can tell it is a small number, making a lot of noise. They post with multiple names. So there could be 5 that look like 20. I mean lets face it, I am Seth and Joe, right? The point is...the Internet is uncontrolled, unfiltered. Anything goes. That is the very reason it is a haven for quacks and cranks.

    If you have not watched that 60 min. piece you should.

    Anyway, if I know something is a fake I do not post it and if I discover later it is a fake, I remove it.

    By the way, the Duesberg investigation has been picked up by the international press. So sad that Peter's following in Germany has to see this happening to him.

    ReplyDelete
  46. I figured whoever did the fake Facebook page was a denialist attempting some sort of entrapment. Similarly, sock puppets like Kralc Rekab and their endless references to Kim Bannon smack of someone trying to just make everyone seem as repulsive as Baker.

    ReplyDelete
  47. I think the whole denialism blogosphere has just deteriorated. It lasted longer than I expected. I mean how long can you sustain a back and forth with crazy people? At this point they seem more than fully exposed. They are so far out in left field you would have to be firing a single neuron to listen to them.

    I think that is why the new set of games. It is out of boredom.

    The Faker Baker was not an entrapment..it was an anti-Baker. How do I know this? Baker had to complain to get the Facebook account shut down.

    And Kralc Rekab, that is Clark Baker spelled backwards...also an anti-deniaist who really hates Baker...so I figure Kralc is also the Faker Baker on Facebook.

    Now Karl, I am not so convinced he is a fake. At least I like to think Karl is true blue..

    ReplyDelete
  48. Seth - what do you mean the "international" media now picked up the Duesberg story? I'd love to see that!! Fantastic!!

    ReplyDelete
  49. This is Kralc Rekab. I can assure you that I am not a denialist. I also was the one who posted the anti-Baker page. Please do not even refer to me in the same breath as a denialist. If you want to verify this, then please click on my name for a link to another page of mine that will further verify my true intentions.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Clarkie now is using the Duesberg investigation to ask for recurring donations to his Post Office Box of "Justice":
    http://www.omsj.org/corruption/the-duesberg-inquisition


    "With your generous single or recurring donation of $5, $10/mo or more, you can help OMSJ assist Professor Duesberg and other victims."

    HAHAHAHA!!

    ReplyDelete
  51. Kralc

    New Scientist, which has a huge UK readership, picked up the Duesberg story as did Nature...see below...

    http://blogs.nature.com/news/thegreatbeyond/2010/04/author_of_withdrawn_paper_inve_1.html

    It is sad that all of this about a goofy paper co-authored with Henry Bauer. What is next, The Bauer-Duesberg Field Guide to Unicorns and Nessies?

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  52. I'm curious what happened to the Anonymous that asked "If HIV causes AIDS...why do sufferers of this disease only come down with the specified indicator diseases..?" We took the time to answer his/her "genuine" question, asked it it made sense to him/her, and he/she disappears. Why is it that so many denialists ask questions (I assume hoping to stump us) and when given a logical answer, rather than learn from fact, they disappear? I have yet to see a single denialist receive an answer, stop, thin, and then say "oh yeah, that IS logical" and then learn from it. I guess that is why it is called "denial".

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  53. Poodles, denialists don't ask "questions" because they want answers or because they want to learn something. Denialist "questions" are in fact thinly disguised argumentoids - that are almost always wrong.

    They are a rhetorical device, largely deployed to try to wear down ones opponent through tedium.

    The general pattern of denialist argumentoids is that they contain "a possibly false factoid as a premise, and an invalid argument that is almost always unspoken. This missing middle piece helps to make the line both tiny and deceptive."

    "Caj" on The daily Kos explains it here:

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/6/5/739123/-Denial-Movements-101:introduction-to-argumentoids

    The really sad thing is that occasionally people stumble on to threads like with genuine questions. The danger is that genuine questioners (especially if they're anonymous) can sometimes be mistaken for denialists. Denialists posing "questions" solely for their supposed rhetorical value deserve to be ignored if not treated with contempt. Genuine questioners do not.

    The trick is to tell the difference.

    The "Anonymous" whose question you answered flagged himself/herself as a denialist troll by his preamble to his/her "genuine question":

    "Do you really know how ridiculous that statement is? I myself am happy to be called a chickenshit or whatever by posting anonymously and that is primarily because I have seen how nasty you people get...So Poodle Stomper, if you really want to claim some sort of Blog-Cred, use your real name, I don't expect you to...Blah Blah etc."

    You and Seth are far too respectful of obvious trolls in my opinion.

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  54. Absolutely. Poodle - denialists can't let anything as silly as "facts" and "truth" get in the way of their thinking!

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  55. A little "Kralc Rekab" may have behind the scenes contacted both HuffPost and the Daily Californian (and a couple others). My lasting gift. Yippeeeeee!

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  56. Oh - one more thing - I told the editor at The Daily Californian that he should get a comment from Clarkie Baker and he responded a day later that upon investigation, "Clark Baker has no credibility to talk on this matter or any other matter because he is so obviously bat-shit crazy".

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  57. Fake Poodle Stomper (because you are too much of a coward and have to use someone else's name when you are schooled: you are asking for another intellectual whipping!
    I'll let the real Poodle respond to your BS crap again, but I want to point out one of your lies:
    The government statistics for HIV prevalence and incidence, as well as AIDS deaths in South Africa are easily found:
    http://www.avert.org/safricastats.htm
    As you will note, the South African Medical Research council shows that 2005-2006 had 336000 deaths due to AIDS, 2006-2007 approx 345000 deaths due to AIDS, (about 1000 deaths a day). You will find that the South African Health Systems Trust has comparable numbers, and the World Health Organization, and the United Nations.

    There is no "voodoo science" except your bullshit.

    What the hell - I'll destroy another one of your lies while I'm at it - it's too easy. This is an article in the CURRENT month's issue of a PEER-REVIEWED infectious disease journal:

    http://journals.lww.com/co-infectiousdiseases/Abstract/2010/04000/Kaposi_s_sarcoma_in_sub_Saharan_Africa__a_current.5.aspx

    Please note:
    The incidence of Kaposi's sarcoma has increased exponentially with the HIV/AIDS pandemic with a shift in trend demonstrating a dramatic increase in females and occurrence in younger individuals.

    When, Fake Poodle, will you finally admit that you are slaughtered intellectually and wrong pretty much every time you open your mouth?

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  58. FakePoodleStomp AIDS DenierApril 21, 2010 at 10:12 AM

    Posted by an AIDS Denialist using the 'Poodle Stomper' Brand.
    >>>>>>>>>>

    Facts and Truth, I checked out your references and they did not back your response.

    Just been reading about TB and Karposis Sarcoma in South Africa, both of which were endemic there before the crappy HIV tests came along. Now mysteriously they are AIDS defining diseases. Especially love how you've previously waved the spectre of children with Karposis over there as proof that HIV causes AIDS and must have been trasmitted from the mother. Sadly for your paradigm, it was documented in African kids long long long ago in a land before HIV, just like your fairy tale epidemic.

    Quite sneaky how you do most of your testing in maternal clinics knowing full well that multi child mothers are a known false positive test group as are people infected with TB or even just exposed to TB.

    So who's bright idea was it to find a population that has suffered the highest rates of diseases known to cross react with HIV tests and then proclaim there's an AIDS epidemic going on?

    What is the actual number of AIDS deaths over there, your mathematical model figures vary between 330k and 365k whereas the government statistics actual count is 14.5k. Now Now Seth even you stated you preferred counts to models, but I guess only when it backs your position.

    Your brand of Voodoo science is not helping anyone except of course those making a killing out of it. (pun intended)

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  59. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  60. Yeah- just delete people who impersonate Poodle Stomper, me, or Todd. That way they will learn to post under their own monikers if they want to continue to get intellectually slaughtered.

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  61. Me-faker,

    While I'm flattered that you think so highly of me that you feel you must impersonate me, perhaps you would be so kind as to give the numbers of KS cases/deaths before HIV and after HIV in Africa. You know, just to provide your sources. Somehow I doubt you will do this, however, preferring to run and hide behind other people's names instead.

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  62. Snout,
    Thanks for the link. It is fascinating. It never surprises me just how much all denialist groups share in common and (as the DailyKos author points out) how much they dislike being compared to each other. The argumentoid section alone is very informative. Thanks again!

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  63. Instead of looking at this in a scientific way, I just ask myself, "WHAT GOOD WOULD IT DO FOR HIS CAREER TO BE A DENIALIST? WOULD HE MAKE MORE MONEY TOWING THE LINE? WOULD A MAN IN HIS POSITION ENRICH HIMSELF BY BEING A GOOD COMPANY MAN?

    none
    yes
    yes.

    Common sense tells me this guy, who is smarter and has more experience in this field than anyone writing here, really believes this. ANd whether he is right or wrong, his stance tells me something stinks about the whole thing.

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  64. Whether or not he believes it is irrelevant really compared to whether or not the data supports his claims. It does not. His "stance" against mainstream science is similar to his aneuploidy-only stance against mainstream oncology. The problem isn't with the mainstream scientists but rather with the one rejecting all results that conflict with his belief. The only thing that stinks is the remains of what could have been a productive career, traded in for a career in crankery, cherry picking and misrepresentation of facts.

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  65. I'm a Ph.d in virology & microbiology, privately funded. H.I.V. isn't even needed for A.I.D.S., ever heard of "ICL" ?
    Thats what Fauci named H.I.V. FREE A.I.D.S. back in 92. Fauci should be strung uP from the nearest thing that appears to be able to support his weight.
    I have worked with H.I.V. & S.I.V. and the conclusion I came to is that H.I.V. is an absolute, total & complete DUD !
    Do you simpletons actually see Dr.Robert Gallo as "HONEST JOHN" or something ?
    What about Gallo's other fraud retro-dud "HTLV-1" and it's ability to cause leukemia after a 55 year long latent period ! LOL!!!!!

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  66. Dueberg Is not an A.I.D.S. scientist ?
    "GALO" HIMSELF HAS SAID THAT "DUESBERG KNOWS MORE ABOUT RETROVIRUSES THAN ANYONE ON EARTH!"

    DUHHH!!!! LOL!!!!

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  67. I invite anyone, I will debate anyone who thinks that they know better, I have studied enough H.I.V. positives to know that virus is a dud.

    I have personally spoken with Montagnier, do you or anyone else think that he backed Shyh-Ching Lo's mycoplasma "INCOGNITUS" for no real reason ?

    Why would he have ever seen a reason to do that in the first place Seth ?
    I suppose it was because he felt that the cape wearing hybrid "SupeR ViruS" H.I.V. is as bad, if not worse, than the Zaire strain of Ebola ?

    Whats uP Seth ?

    I have had many retrovirologists agree with me on this, they told me that they get paid for NOTHING !

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  68. "Dueberg Is not an A.I.D.S. scientist ?
    "GALO" HIMSELF HAS SAID THAT "DUESBERG KNOWS MORE ABOUT RETROVIRUSES THAN ANYONE ON EARTH!"


    Not all retrovirologists are AIDS biologists. I find it pretty sad that you can't seem to grasp this very simple logic. Your writing also makes me severely doubt that you have any sort of degree in any subject, much less a PhD in virology and micro. As for Montagnier, he has also backed the idea that water has a memory. It isn't about who says what, it is about what the evidence points to. Surely you learned about this while doing your grad school...right?

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  69. There is no such thing as an A.I.D.S. researcher genius, they are all nothing but H.I.V.. worshiping idiots who found the meal ticket that they will never ever let go of, thats it.
    Let me know if your still breathing, then we will see just ignorant you really are.
    You don't know what the HeLL your talking about regarding Montagnier and what he's actually doing either, I see. LoL!!!
    Where's the "PuTZ" who's supposed to be in charge of this P.O.S. website anyway ?
    Thats who I want !

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  70. What with AIDS if they don't understand retrovirology in the first place? Retrovirology is the very foundation of HIV and AIDS....

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