Perhaps he should direct his anger at those who facilitated her Denialism, rather than the victim herself. But Karri, like Christine Maggiore before her, is a victim with blood on her hands.
If you are not familiar with Karri Stokely, look back over some of my older posts. You can also visit numerous AIDS Denialism websites, where she is a common feature. Rethinking AIDS shamelessly exploited this woman and her family. Our goal should be to make it impossible for them to replace her with a new poster-person.
UPDATE: Karri Stokely passed away yesterday. Her health deteriorated and she developed opportunistic infections. Reader comments regarding her death are posted near the end of this thread.
UPDATE: Karri Stokely passed away yesterday. Her health deteriorated and she developed opportunistic infections. Reader comments regarding her death are posted near the end of this thread.
Goodbye and good riddance, Karri Stokely, you AIDS denialist bitch.
By Todd (guyn2gear), Karri Stokely's Cousin
I received news this morning that Karri is in hospice care with a bad pneumonia infection. As any rational person would deduce from the above, it is an opportunistic infection, known as part of ARC (AIDS-related complex). Most people can fight off most forms of pneumonia with antibiotic and antiviral drugs — and we can thank AIDS research for invention of the antivirals. Karri is not able to fight this one off, not because it's a strange or particularly strong infection, but because her immune system is too compromised to do anything about it anymore.
The person who told me asked me not to say anything about it, to keep it quiet. I'm sorry, Karri, but your shameful actions drove me to shout this to the world:
Karri Stokely, you are getting what you deserve.
Yes, that's a horrific thing to say. I've never before said that about any dying person. Karri, however, has done something much more horrific herself: She has played the pied piper to audiences who are confused and looking for answers, and her unscientific, already debunked answers will get some of those people killed, likely in slow, tortuous ways. Her public denial of the HIV/AIDS connection is itself a virus of the mind, and she has been spreading that virus to the world, consequences be damned.
I'm sorry to Karri's husband, and to her children, who will soon be without a mother, though I'm happy that Karri was able to have time with them without the drug side effects. I'm sorry to Karri's mother, who will now outlive her own child. No one, Karri included, deserves HIV. On the flip side, no one deserves to be harangued by deadly false hope.
To my friends who are HIV+ and taking care of yourselves, I applaud you for keeping it together. I can't begin to imagine how it has reshaped your life.
To those who are HIV-, do what I do. Get tested regularly. Be vigilant about your health. Learn about HIV and other STIs, and talk to your doctor about them.
Regardless of your status, keep yourself protected. The most caring thing you can do for your sexual partner is to cover it up. (Most of the people I know enjoy rubber, right? ...Oh, here's the lyrics for that as well.)
This posting may mean that family members, who didn't know much about my personal life, will discover that I have a very "alternative" view of sexuality. As my inaugural post on this too-infrequent blog said, I'm not hiding myself anymore, so I had no qualms about calling out people, myself included, by name. The topic of AIDS disinformation makes it ever more important for me to stand out and be seen... consequences be damned.
The person who told me asked me not to say anything about it, to keep it quiet. I'm sorry, Karri, but your shameful actions drove me to shout this to the world:
Karri Stokely, you are getting what you deserve.
Yes, that's a horrific thing to say. I've never before said that about any dying person. Karri, however, has done something much more horrific herself: She has played the pied piper to audiences who are confused and looking for answers, and her unscientific, already debunked answers will get some of those people killed, likely in slow, tortuous ways. Her public denial of the HIV/AIDS connection is itself a virus of the mind, and she has been spreading that virus to the world, consequences be damned.
I'm sorry to Karri's husband, and to her children, who will soon be without a mother, though I'm happy that Karri was able to have time with them without the drug side effects. I'm sorry to Karri's mother, who will now outlive her own child. No one, Karri included, deserves HIV. On the flip side, no one deserves to be harangued by deadly false hope.
To my friends who are HIV+ and taking care of yourselves, I applaud you for keeping it together. I can't begin to imagine how it has reshaped your life.
To those who are HIV-, do what I do. Get tested regularly. Be vigilant about your health. Learn about HIV and other STIs, and talk to your doctor about them.
Regardless of your status, keep yourself protected. The most caring thing you can do for your sexual partner is to cover it up. (Most of the people I know enjoy rubber, right? ...Oh, here's the lyrics for that as well.)
This posting may mean that family members, who didn't know much about my personal life, will discover that I have a very "alternative" view of sexuality. As my inaugural post on this too-infrequent blog said, I'm not hiding myself anymore, so I had no qualms about calling out people, myself included, by name. The topic of AIDS disinformation makes it ever more important for me to stand out and be seen... consequences be damned.
To read the entire post, click here
I suppose this news was inevitable. It was just a matter of time. Its sad to read. She's probably persuaded a lot of people to follow suit. For that she deserves no mercy.
ReplyDeleteI am sure all the other AIDS Denialists will claim that 11 years of "toxic" meds wiped out her intestinal flora and that is what lead to all this.
ReplyDeleteI wonder how angry her children will be in the future when they can understand just how selfish she was and how many other lives she may have cost.
Clark Baker is much to blame for this!
Good for her cousin! I hope people click over to the cousin's blog and will read everything Karri left out when she posted about him a year or so ago. He seems to be very articulate and intelligent and obviously has no bones about making his true feelings known.
ReplyDeleteThe absolute saddest part of this is that none of the people who helped contribute to the decline of Karri's health (and possibly death) will take any responsibility. They will fall further and deeper into denial and will make every excuse. If EJ could die with an autopsy that directly implicated HIV/AIDS and then Maggiore could die and they would go to the extreme lengths of denying for a full year that an autopsy took place, only to release a bull shit version of the autopsy and not the actual autopsy, then surely the death of Karri will just be one more annoying PR bump in the road!
ReplyDeleteI hope her husband, JOE STOKELY, knows (eventhough he will not publicly admit) that he was directly at fault for starting his wife on this crazy train!...and potential death!
And let's not forget that Clark Baker was INSTRUMENTAL in Karri's ill health. (Remember how Baker claimed to be INSTRUMENTAL in getting BioTerrorism Charges dropped in the Daniel Allen case)! Although I highly doubt Baker will admit his guilt in the murder of Karri!!
The AIDS Denialists are scrambling like cockroaches in water, again. They are doing their usual crazy dance when one of them bites the dust. As they die off one by one, so too will this crazy mess. Maggiore, Carter, now Stokely die of AIDS. Bauer, Bialy, Rasnick and Duesberg have their kids changing their diapers, soon to fade off into nothingness. They are pushing 70, right? When they are soon gone, Farber, Crowe, Baker and the other flakes will disappear without a cause. Then you can turn your blog into something more useful, like a daily discussion of zit busting. The soon the better!
ReplyDeleteThis is some sad shit. Hats off to cousin Todd for having the balls to put his feelings out there.
ReplyDeleteWhere is David Crowe now? That sick f#@k. Can't wait to see how they spin this one.
Another picture of health in an AIDS Denialist grave. Seth, when does the insanity end??
ReplyDeleteSeth,
ReplyDeleteI am angry at those who lured Karri into a trap. They are tantamount to serial killers at this point, in my mind. They continue to lure new poster cases into their cult-like mentality.
What has brought me to such a level of vitriol towards my cousin, besides the fact that we're related, is that she has been a fairly well-known "pretty face" for the movement for several years, trotting herself out to podium after podium to mislead others.
That's what has me fearful for the health of the generation of teenagers today. They can look at the pretty faces (pictures = 1000 words, as it goes), and instantly give credence to their already-debunked arguments. And of course, impulsive teenagers aren't likely to read up on the facts if they see something like this, so we have to rely on visual counterbalance from sources such as TV dramas.
As for never seeing my blog before, I doubt you would have anyway (it's predominantly about sexual fetishism/paraphilia and not generally about HIV/AIDS), but I appreciate the vote of confidence in any case. :)
Thanks Todd
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your comment. I certainly share your anger and outrage.
The AIDS Denialists exploit people like your cousin. It is easy to be angry with her, but the real bad guys are Duesberg, Rasnick, Crowe etc. They have a band of mental midgets who help lure in people like Karri. The AIDS Deniers just told her what she wanted to hear and then exploited her for their own narcissistic self-stimulation. Again, it is easy to be angry with her, but she is really a victim here.
My best regards to you and thanks again!
That's bullshit man, Like i said before Karri Stokely and other people like her Maggiorie included are just as guilty as Duesberg and Rasnick and Crowe, Come on man we all know what HIV is and what it does and we have since the middle of the god damn 1980's, There is no excuse for these pieces of human waste, Stokley knew damn well what her disease was, she chose to lie to people about that and she paid with her life, I'm sorry to come on a little strong man but I'm just so sick of these people, and then when the so called poster people of their movement die, other's give them a pass from their crimes and pass the blame onto the people that are still alive and still operating this denialist shit. To me one is not better than the other, they're all serial killers in my book, and Stokley is burning in hell with all her friends right now, like I said before she is not a god damn victim here, and I find it deplorable that you would say she is a victim, total bullshit.No the real victims are the people like my uncle that died of AIDS before there was any HAART out there to prolong his life, He's a god damn victim, Stokley is a criminal
DeleteSorry for your loss, Anonymous...So your uncle,he died of AIDS...in the 80's? Just AIDS? Just like that,on it's own and nothing else than AIDS?? Bummer,sounds like he was unlucky and too late for the "good stuff" to come out! Oh,if only he was given those high dozes of AZT + other "goodies" together he might just still be here with us,right?
DeleteOr what,was he in Africa and it was the "other" kind of HIV/AIDS? Or was it just AIDS on it's own, no HIV?
But not to worry, your uncle was in safe hands as "we all know" as a so called matter of a fact and for so so sure that the HIV test's,the same ones your uncle would have had in the 80's were already said to be extremely accurate back then, like they have been said to be in today's HIV antibody testing. But we all know that right... Besides,that would be just totally dumb,dumber&dumber to go for a second opinion, on a test that we all saw come out in the news right after HIV was announced to the waiting world.
"Better safe than sorry - Measure twice and cut once", good old sayings them ones,still work today. I do wonder what are them wise words for if not just the right kind of space for THE ROOM where the first opinions can be then proven & agreed to be the right opinion & even facts if there is the evidence to back it up,whatever the case in question might be.
Interesting...innet!
Or just plain dangerous.
I couldn't tell you what it is but I sure as hell will allow people to find out and decide for them self - HIV or not we are all going to die anyway,that's fact that no one can deny nor should it come as a major shock to anyone.
P.S. I find it utterly disgustingly deplorable how most of you (fellow humans) and the so called cousin talk about (in this case) a woman who's opinions,views or even beliefs might differ from your own, so what??!! Allow it, investigate it,find proof and present it but don't attack, that's low - That's Gallo, is that you?
Sounds like the Lady ain't got the right to think,choose,act,TALK or rest in peace??!! Allow people the room to question and discover. What's the worse that could happen really, think about it. Sounds like free "human waste" disposal to me...Ain't that just what the doctor ordered - but cheaper,no??
Seth, you're right, of course. I don't have the stamina to go after the core people involved, though; that's why you have readers. I suppose my real reason for writing that post was to bring publicity to the fact that Karri is dying of opportunistic infection, in the hope that the hypocrisy of [yet another] denialist would be on the record.
ReplyDeleteWhen asked in a telephone call not to say anything about her current illness, I was even more enraged than my heavily-edited writing shows. As an example (and it wasn't the worst of what was spoken over the phone), I said that "if I can trace any AIDS-related death directly to her public speeches, I'm carving that person's name into her tombstone."
I wouldn't really do such a tasteless thing, but that gives you an idea of how mad I really was, particularly at being asked to keep it quiet. I'm about as diametrically opposed to my family's WASPiness as it gets, I suppose...
Todd and JTodd, I feel exactly the same about her proselytisation of anti-medicine lies about HIV. The concern is people seeing her on youtube, reading about her, reading what she's written and so forth.
ReplyDeleteOn another tack, have you any idea at all what motivated her? She never admitted publicly as to how her or Joe might have contracted HIV. Denying it all in her case I guess was to avoid coming clean about an illicit liason?
Neil
ReplyDeleteI think her story has been told. She tested HIV+ and was being treated. She became ill while on treatment and attributed her declining health to the medications rather than her disease. Her husband Joe discovered the AIDS Deniers while looking online for something to help his wife. He believed because he wanted to believe. He gave her an out from her desperate situation. She stopped treatment and her health improved, reinforcing her faulty attributions and bolstering her new beliefs. She was sucked up by the likes of Crowe and Rasnick when they needed a new healthy face to replace Christine Maggiore. My guess is that she was not a shy person and did not mind the attention. She and her husband really believed that she was fine and that the medications are poison. For them, it was not a show. They even brought their kids into the bubble. It is probably impossible to imagine how they are feeling now. As for the AIDS Deniers, I am sure they are looking for the next vulnerable person, likely a white woman with a husband and 2 kids, to exploit.
Neil, her stated cause was coming into contact with contaminated blood while working as a RN.
ReplyDeleteI don't know what the real reason was, but I don't care all that much either. I'm a bit more sexually liberal than most, so I don't come down hard on extramarital sex (...as long as it's consensual between everyone involved, including the spouse).
Yeah I suppose it doesn't matter. I was thinking of a person I know who's husband had one affair, became infected and so did the wife. Terribly sad, but they are very open about it, guilt admitted, moved on etc.
ReplyDeleteIt's also funny that there is not a thread at QA.com about this new development. It's obvious they are towing the line from the "higher ups" to keep this under wraps.
ReplyDeleteThey are quiet at first when this happens...then come the attacks. It won't be long now. Clark Baker must be devastated.
ReplyDeleteZUL: I probably broke the news well before any of them knew about it, and it's likely that most of the forum people still don't know. Karri's mother did not even know about her current condition until today (they aren't on good terms, for obvious reasons).
ReplyDeleteNo, Todd, they know about it since it appeared on Seth's blog. They all troll here so they have known for a couple of days now. They probably knew as soon as it happened, but are diligently adhering to strict orders not to discuss it. Unfortunately, however, the AIDS Denial community is small (contrary to their assertions), and Seth's blog is read by all of them, so they do indeed know about it!
ReplyDeleteAlso, Todd, you underscored just how selfish Karri is to put her mother thru this pain (as well as her other family). I hope her husband, Joe, knows he killed his own wife and the mother of his children!
I do not understand why she just doesn't crawl back into that HyperBaricOxygenChamber. I mean, it cured her CMV at the end of last year (although it took 47 treatments) and was "incredibly painful" for three months, so why couldn't it cure her PCP?
ReplyDeleteOR, Celia Farber could just direct some of that "light, the frequency of pure love" Karris way and that would cure her.
OR, all of these people could chip in like they did for Jonathan Barnett and give her a Vitamin C infusion to cure her PCP.
OR, Clark Baker could give her some of that addictive Sustiva! Then she could just hallucinate her troubles away!
OR...
I understand that she has likely lead people away from lifesaving treatment but I still find it tragic that a life that could have held so much potential seems to be nearing an end. This is made doubly by the fact that it could all have been so easily avoided. I guess I can only hope that the idiots responsible for her condition (physical AND mental) will one day be held legally accountable.
ReplyDeleteI am the woman mentioned above who is white, middle aged married and my husband gave me HIV at 50 years old after one affair.
ReplyDeleteIt would have been very easy for us to have gone down the denialist route as a solution to the othewise possible, envisaged or feared shame of accepting and living with HIV after a very different reality of a long married 'respectable ' couple living in a very white, afluent, rural part of the UK.
But we decided not to buy into such lies and not only accept and deal with our HIV but to live openly with it.
But my husbands first instinct was denial and had I bought into it I could have easily been another voice of denialism.
It was not in fact an option for me and I am glad we made the decicion we did to be open about our HIV together and treat it as it should be treated, as just a virus and with no shame, but I can see how easy it could have been to have taken the completly opposite path.
There is a lot I could say about this as I have talked to Karri as she spoke to me
online but I posted what I wanted to say on Todds blog already, so my comment is there.
But I support everything he has said and can see totally why he said it and why he feels as he does.
Feel he is brave but also so sorry fror Karri as there for the gracecof something, it could be me too
Veritee
Sorry I posted anonomously because I am on my iPad and forgot my google password but I have a blog HIV & US on blogger and happy for people to know who I am
ReplyDeletePeople from QA.com are very excited regarding a treatment called GcMAF. Why don't they ask Ruggiero to aply this to Karri? :)
ReplyDeleteWhy do people at QA.com want any treatment for something they reckon they don't have?! I wonder why they bother, apart from the obvious need to see a shrink.
ReplyDeleteHere is what MUST be said in the wake of Karri's decline and everyone who was swayed by her new found health after she stopped HAART must know and understand:
ReplyDeleteAll medicines are different for eveyone!
Karri's major decision to stop HAART in the "light" of her husband's "discovery" of the "dissident" belief, needs to know and acknowledge that Karri's decision was ill informed. She decided on an "all or nothing" treatment.
The fact that Karri took the same medications for 11 years, despite that fact that she was not feeling well and reacting well to those medications, speaks volumes to her mindset. Karri (as well as her doctor) should have tried different medications. Instead, she just stopped cold turkey. Karri should have tried other meds not just stopped them all-together. Luckily there are many, many options and I know from personal experience that Karri could have found a cocktail that would have been great for her and would not have negatively impacted her health.
Now it looks to be too late for Karri. But anyone in the same predicament needs to try to find the cocktail that is right for them. These medications do NOT need to have a deleterious impact on day to day activities. They just don't!
Let's hope that is the real lesson that others take from Karri's situation.
The Rethinking AIDS Website is proud to announce that it has finally gotten around to erasing Emery Taylor and has now officially conveyed him to the memory hole:
ReplyDeleteFrom the Google cache (but not for much longer):
HIV+ for over 10 years, no meds, healthy
Emery Taylor was interviewed at the RA2009 Conference: "According to the numbers I have AIDS, but when you look at me you see a healthy 28-year old ... I don't spell AIDS at all ... I work 70 hours a week ... It's just not consistent with what my doctor said would happen eleven years ago when I tested positive."
...Karri Stokely still features prominently on the RA homepage. We expect she will go quietly in due course.
It's sad to see how many people over at RA keep dying (why just the HIV+ ones, I wonder?) of immune-compromised related diseases and need to be removed from the "alive and well" section. Sadder still is how few of those lunatics bother to question why this keeps happening.
ReplyDelete"My questions for people like Mr Gallo and Mr Fauci would be.... my main question would be 'Who is in denial here?' "
ReplyDeleteKarri Stokely, Vienna conference 2010
http://scienceandaids.blip.tv/file/4059532?filename=Scienceandaids-HowIFellVictimToTheAIDSMachine354.m4v
We have known the answer to this question all along, Karri, but I doubt that even now you will accept this. Cognitive dissonance will explain away all the uinconvenient realities of your illness.
I have already been targeted and insulted by a denialist for my comment on Karri's cousins blog.
ReplyDeleteAnd in a public arena on a face book support group for people living with and affected by HIV that he had somehow snuck in on.
He accused me of being evil and a hipocrit, wishing someone, Karri, dead because I disagreed with her choice of not taking ARVs.
When I said clearly, or thought I was saying this I could not find it in myself to wish Karri any harm and felt anyone ill of dying from this thing is a tragedy.
And while I know that ARVs are our only hope of life I have to respect those whose chice is not to take them as I knwo this is often based on fear. As long as they do not try to persade others and manipulate others as Karri did, but that I do not wish her harm.
But that as her cousin and related to her, and who had tied to reason with her, I understood why Todd had said what he did and felt he was brave to do so.
But I was made out by this denialist to be a nasty person in a public place online ad insulted.
This was also followed up by him by personal messages.
This al happned through a group I use in FB for my own support where I have friends: 'International place for people with HIV/AIDS, and the people who love us'
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_182250035156291&id=182305605150734
And the sad thing is for me is that many people HIV+ on this and other groups I belong to thought he was being genuine and do not know what a denialist is as they have not yet come across them!!!!!
And I know at least two persons on there and more in other groups they infiltrate on FB that have very low CD4 counts - one has a CD4 of 8!!! and are scared to take ARVs and are candidates to be persuaded not to by people like him that join theses groups yet are denialists.
They join such group, build up trust and then try to persuade vulnerable people not to take ARVs or to stop taking them.
I have checked out this guy, and he is indeed a denialist and a member of the House of Numbers.
He is only the latest one to insult me because I have HIV and I am adamant in refuting denialist claims and fighting against them trying to persuade HIV poz people to join them.
Can I name him here?
I would very much like to
Veritee
Crazy,very CRAZY,Is here anybody HIV positiv?
ReplyDeleteVeritee, of course you can name him. But don't expect any of the attacks to stop. This is how these people operate. They are evil, horrible people who are mentally unstable.
ReplyDeleteQA.com has finally posted about Karri's health and according to Barnett via Joe Stokely, Karri is declining and is at home.
ReplyDeleteJust as I predicted, the denialists are already trying to blame the HIV meds that Karri took for 11 years (and has been off of them for 3 years.)
"Joe also noted that none of what is happening should come a huge surprise to anyone who understands Karri's history, which includes more than a decade of anti-retroviral drug use, including AZT.
Most recently, Karri went through a long and exhaustive series of hyperbaric treatments to help her heal an internal wound, and spent some time at the Hippocrates Health Institute in her home state of Florida."
Isn't it funny how easy it is for these mentally unstable people to try and rewrite history? Karri claimed over and over that she regained her health after stopping HAART! Now that she is dying, it is all because of the ARVs!
The truth is, Karri should have found the meds that worked for her. These meds do not have to cause an impact on daily health! Her husband is going to have to live with his wife's death and his role in her death. PERIOD!
Oh, and lastly, NONE of the "orthodox" are happy about Karri's declining health as Barnett is claiming! It's ridiculous and offensive, but I know he is bitter and mentally unstable. We have to forgive them for they are not in their right minds.
Interesting comments
ReplyDeleteBy her own account, Karri was doing a 3.5 mile "power walk" every day at the time she stopped treatment in 2007. After stopping, she complained of symptoms that were interfering with her ability to do so. This is worth considering when evaluating the veracity of subsequent accounts of her experience, which were delivered after embracing AIDS denial. The posts are preserved on QA in the AIDS Myth Exposed archive:
ReplyDeletehttp://forums.questioningaids.com/showthread.php?t=770
http://forums.questioningaids.com/showthread.php?t=775
By the sound of the new thread, Karri was already ill at the time she traveled to Vienna. The fact she made the trip is a testament to remarkable fortitude. So tragic that it was used in service of an insane death cult. What is there to say about David Crowe's comment:
"I'm sure that positive vibes will help. David Rasnick's wife is out to help, which is also helping a lot."
I think you lose perspective, I think Karry is a person who may have made mistakes, mistakes that can also harm other people, you can judge, I personally believe that a person can be manipulated and taken either way if your situation leads her to that, now, I do not get to dance on his future grave or ridiculous enter this competition with QA help much, if there is a point to do, doing it but not this ridiculous expectation that anyone would die for others see that designs .. you just have to point the rest is morbid, or absurd feeling of satisfaction at the death of another, they will ue creoq hand comments
ReplyDeleteNo I dont expect the attacks to stop!
ReplyDeleteAnd I am willing to face this as this is something I am going to speak out about especially as so many have the audacity to infiltrate support groups for those with HIV - even on Facebook - and so many in these groups have no idea who these people are or what they are capable of.
And that scares me because they talk to these people and take their points seriously and think they are being given support on how to eat healthily.
In one group I belong to the House of Numbers film was posted and people I know to be HIV+ taking their meds and not in denial but seemed not to have heard that this was a denialist group and what they stand for and watched the video and took it seriously!!It was this group: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_148520608548393&id=148811465185974
I am often a lone voice - apart from one other who also reads your blog - in some of these Facebook groups so the denialists can and are having a field day in FB because so few challenge them.
I have been aware for a soem time now, but some of these people are only just beginning to seek online support and have never heard of denialists and are taking heir rubbish seriously.
The latest person to insult me in a support group to which he also belongs and chats to others, is David Crowe!!
Veritee said: "I have been aware for a some time now, but some of these people are only just beginning to seek online support and have never heard of denialists and are taking their rubbish seriously."
ReplyDeleteWhich is precisely how Karri and her husband Joe became involved in denialism in the first place:
Karri said (4 years ago): "I hate to admit it, but my husband and I have just found out this past week about this whole "other side of AIDS", dissident movement, Peter Duesberg, AZT toxic....ect. Unfortunately, we have just listened to my doctor on this for 11 yrs. (and not being sick, I ve never questioned it before)
Now we feel extremely confused and misled by the "traditional medical community". We are totally on board with all the things we have come across on the internet this past week. We've read EVERYTHING!"
The denialists deliberately target people when they are their most vulnerable, and when they are least able to critically examine the claims being put forward.
A second issue is stigma, which can make it hard to speak openly with friends and family about HIV/AIDS - at least at the start. The relative privacy of the net can make it very attractive to people who are just beginning to explore these issues.
Most people who are just beginning to seek online support are unaware that the denialists have been refining their rhetoric for many. many years. And without much of a background in the history of the "debate" it is difficult to pick up the inconsistencies and misrepresentations in the denialist claims.
Unfortunately, for a long time many in the mainstream simply ignored the denialists and hoped they would simply go away when their claims were proven to be unfounded at the scientific level.
They were wrong.
Well, one of them finally came over to my post to try to... well, I'm not sure what she/he was attempting to do, but it certainly wasn't to educate.
ReplyDeleteI've given some rather long-winded, but information-intensive, rebuttal posts in response, for those who are interested in reading them (or fact-checking, in case I've missed something or got one of my statistics wrong).
Seth has there been any research done about how and when people stumble across denialist stuff in the internet, and the proportion of people who find it credible?
ReplyDeleteAlso are there any data about the the number of HIV positive people influenced by denialism to the point where they question HIV science / treatment options?
@Rhonda. Though no data to support it, my long standing view is that people do turn first to the internet when a diagnosis similar to HIV and or cancer. I'm sure I saw a study recently confirming this.
ReplyDeleteThis is one of the reasons I feel its very important to counter denialism online. Indeed I've been beating the drum for more action at a couple of the HIV charities in London where I live.
Oh for gods sake, the womans' not even dead yet but you vultures are standing at the grave with smiles of anticipation.
ReplyDeleteJust what sort of message do you think that sends to people in crisis and you wonder why denialism is flourishing.
Take a good hard look at yourselves and the message you are actually sending out not what you think you are portraying, because to me I'd rather die with someone who was at least empathetic than a moralistic right at any cost
orthodox truther.
Geez, hiv aside, you make me sick to the stomach
my sister died thanks to guys like you you are the vulture you are the one who makes me sick!!!
DeleteNeil, it's not just that. A large part of Western society, especially in the US, still harbors a stigma considering HIV to be "the fag disease". So even before they start looking for answers, they already want to believe that the diagnosis is wrong, or that it doesn't affect them. That is a predisposition that the denialists use against the victims.
ReplyDelete"Wake up to yourselves," I'm standing with anticipation of Karri's death certificate (and hopefully autopsy) to prove the hypocrisy of the whole situation. Based on what I can confirm, the pneumonia is an opportunistic infection almost solely associated with North American AIDS cases. And yet, having been off of medications for four years, she should be "alive and well," not infected with a pathogen that every healthy person can fight off easily, right?
Todd I have a correction in that Karri has not been off of meds for 4 years. It is barely 3 years I am pretty sure (and it may not even be 3 yet.) She and the other denialists have been slowly increasing the time frame to bolster their claims. And she went out of her way to say just how incredibly healthy she was after stopping the meds.
ReplyDeleteAlso, let's not forget that Karri first said that she "tolerated the meds VERY WELL". Later she tried to clarify that statement when she began to rewrite her own history to make it seem like the meds were deadly toxic. Karri stated "what I meant was I was not in a wheel chair." Those are direct quotes from her. What a lying tool!
Neil
ReplyDeleteYes and no to your research question.
YES, my research team has been looking at how people with HIV/AIDS view AIDS Denialist information. We had people rate the credibility of information from Matthias Rath's fraudulent treatment website and Jonathan Campbell's mega-vitamin C as a cure for AIDS website. They also rated information from Tufts Medical Center's website as a control. Remarkably, people rated them all as credible. People also endorsed accepting several denialist beliefs. Scary stuff. The study is published in the Journal of Behavioral Medicine and can be found at http://www.springerlink.com/content/f485057304hlp437/fulltext.pdf
And NO, I am not aware of any research on prevalence of exposure or buying into AIDS Denialism. Our research above, however, suggests there is considerable vulnerability to their false claims.
Also, Gay Hornet is right. The AIDS Denialists change their story to serve their agenda. Like Maggiore, Karri's story has morphed over time. However, I would not call her a 'lying tool'. I think she really believes what she is saying. I bet she is still blaming HIV treatments for her poor health...whether it be 3 or 4 years after she stopped taking them.
That is why it is very clear to me that AIDS Denialism is a mental health problem.
Finally, 'Wake up to yourselves'... I think you have us mixed up with Peter Duesberg and the other AIDS Deniers. They are the reason why Karri Stokely is dying, not us. We tried to prevent this.
People infected with HIV are living as long and healthy lives as their uninfected counterparts when they can access, and adhere to, antiretroviral medications. Whether it fits your warped view of the world or not, it is true.
Thanks for the info Seth.
ReplyDelete@"Wake up to yourselves" You should read this blog more often. Seth posted hoping Karri would rethink and take meds, a bunch of us make similar pleadings in the comments.
The people at fault here are David Crowe and his friends. Take you anger out on them.
No doubt there will be recriminations ...
Here is more extreme hypocrisy from the members of QA.com. They are discussing that Kim Bannon has deteriorated and are calling us AIDS Realists "vultures":
ReplyDelete"I know they are. Vultures circling, no doubt. But after weighing both sides, several of the moderators decided it was time for a tasteful announcement. They will gloat no matter when they find out, assuming they didn't know till now. The timing is not really that important, in the grand scheme of things. Kim's friends and family have our greatest sympathy for the agony they've been enduring and again, our wishes for a peaceful end to the hell they have been going through. She is well-loved in this community and deserves a respectful farewell.
Linda"
Don't you love how now they are giving Kim's family and friends their "greatest sympathy" and yet it was QA.com who posted Celia Farber's disgusting, slanderous and libelous comments about Kim's father! And then, when Kim's two best and oldest friends wrote posts contradicting Farber, EVERYONE at QA.com attacked them and called them liars!!
You can read the Celia Farber attack at QA.com under "Kim Bannon Gravely Ill" but NOT all of it as Farber and the moderators have done some editing or, truth be told, CENSORSHIP!
Yeah, more hypocrisy and re-writing of history by those vessels of love and compassion!
Gay Hornet
ReplyDeleteYes indeed, Celia Fiber expressed her true crazy bitch self, only to later have her choice words deleted. Fortunately, once on the Internets always on the Internets. In case you missed it, here is her original posting on Q&A March 26, 2010 at 7:26PM...maybe Kim's family would like the original for their attorney?
Celia Farber
Contributing Member (10-99 posts)
Kim Bannon New Thread
I read the Kim Bannon thread, and found it shockingly lacking in fact finding and common
sense. It boggles the mind that nobody mentioned the following facts, which comprise only a part of Kim's story:
1. She was savagely beaten for eight years during her marriage. Her osteopath refused to
see her any more because she continually came in with severe bruises and cuts, and he
wanted criminal charges filed, action taken. She divorced the husband, and the same year,
unconnected, (let's call it) she was the victim of a home invasion. The invader smashed
her face with a five pound steel jackhammer and left her for dead, unconscious.
2. No sexual source of supposed HIV infection was ever found in any sexual partner of
Kim's. She went in for a herpes test and was told to take an HIV test, and tested positive,
in 1991.
3. Members of her family I won't identify allegedly blamed her for her HIV infection, and
called her a slut and a whore, which caused her enough stress that she had to go on a
potent sedative drug. An HIV doctor has consistently been telling Kim since 1991 that she will die imminently if she doesn't take ARV drugs. Her family has consistently sided with the doctors. Most recently, she was threatened to be put in a lockdown psychiatric facility if
she didn't take HAART. She evaded this, and is presently in a care facility for the elderly.
The reason nobody can communicate with her is that her family has legal guardianship and
are hostile toward dissident influences of any kind. I want to pose the question: Where
was the supposedly caring, loving, doting family when Kim was being beaten half to death
by her husband? Does anybody know anything about ABUSED WOMEN? Where they come
from? How they are created? I am being deliberately opaque. Connect the dots.
4. She had major dental work done in 2008--a bone graft on a tooth. She was injected
twice with Epiniaphrin, which causes the nervous system to go into overdrive. She passed
out after the second injection. Shortly after this dental surgery (unsure how many hours or
days) she developed encephalopathy. Kim kept saying it was the dental surgery that
started it all. Nobody listened to her, of course. You can see that all her life she has been abused and degraded and treated like an ignorant helpless child. She is highly intelligent and she is caught up in a terrible cyclone of psychic trauma and dis-empowerment.
FORGET everybody's anxieties about HIV for the moment and ask yourselves, what I have
said so far...what would you expect this woman's health to be like?
5. Her father ALSO had infectious encephalitis right before Kim did. He was debilitated for
two years. It is unclear whether he was living with her at this time.
6. In 2008, she became increasingly mentally disoriented. She went to Alabama and
somehow hooked up with a doctor who put her on EIGHT medications. She was on Atripla,
two nukes, (don't know which) Bactrim (for five months) and four neuroleptic drugs. On
her own insistence, she quit the HIV drugs in mid December 2009, and then she quit the
other drugs cold turkey. As far as I know she has never had a high viral load, or any signs
of HIV progression, according to mainstream theory. (information incomplete here)
7. Presently, she is manifesting psychotic delusions, and a persistent tremor. It is clear she need intense and radical brain rehabilitation, and treatment for severe trauma, post traumatic stress disorder, brain injury, and over medication with HIV drugs and psych drugs.
Farber foaming rant continued...
ReplyDelete8. There appears to be no immune suppression in Kim's health profile at the moment. She
remains delusional, however, and appears traumatized, and should be treated with utmost
love, care, trust, support, but that is not what I am hearing. She has been cornered,
trapped, infantalized, medicated, and now all of you are asking if she is going to be the
next dissident to "bite the dust?" If we lose Kim, don't count me among those who ascribe
her demise as being caused by HIV because I would be more concerned about the five
pound steel jackhammer personally, and how and why this beautiful woman fell victim to
such evil in this life, and also, WHY SHE WAS NOT PROTECTED by those charged with her
protection on this earth. Find me one woman who is the victim of domestic abuse who had
a loving childhood and a sane and good and loving father. Find ONE.
I believe that Kim could be healed if she could be taken to the Life Vessel Institute in New
Mexico, where they help people recover from the most severe mental and neurological
breakdowns, in an atmosphere of Christ like compassion, which is what Kim needs. Not
pity--compassion. Let's try to UNDERSTAND what has happened to this woman and let's stop hand-wringing about HIV while not saying BOO about the jackhammer. Why? Because
it's a female issue? And AIDS is all about why MEN get sick?
Am I onto something?
AnonyMs sez: Veritee, you aren't alone ! You have supporters here and in the general public: most people are not HIV/AIDS denialists. You are doing an important service by providing useful information and persevering despite the vitriol that the denialists spew continuously at you. Wear their insults as a badge of honour. They are a tiny group with an axe to grind and an agenda to sell. Seth has featured stories about people who have died or became seriously ill following their conversions to denialism: look at their photos, they aren't here to speak. You can speak for them and to others who are "on the fence" about seeking standard science-based treatment for their condition. Best to you and yours, AnonyMs
ReplyDeleteThanks, Pink Floyd,
ReplyDeletePeople need to also know that most of the members of QA.com jumped in with their mob mentality and summarily attacked Kim's two best friends as well. Not to mention the entire Moderation Team should never have posted any of the libelous, slanderous attacks at all! They also supported Farber and the others with words of support and then tried to cover up the fiasco later by deleting much of the most heinous attacks.
It just further proves what mentally unstable and horrible sub humans they are.
Seth
ReplyDeleteSeems like the AIDS Denialists are pretty quiet round here? What'z up wid dat? Figure they are out buying new funeral garb for Karri?
Pink Floyd
ReplyDeleteActually, I have gotten comments from them. But I decided to censor them from this thread. They really have nothing to contribute. In some cases they have been lower in the gutter than usual. I would rather not give them the chance to throw insults at Karri's cousin Todd. His outrage seems to be the only glimmer of sanity in her life. Too bad he could not get her out of the bubble. Here is one example...an except of an unposted comment from someone claiming to be another of Karri's cousins.
"You two are both XXXXXXX......Todd Deshong, actually, to both of you, F#@K YOURSELF A 12 inch pole up the ass :)... Guess what losers, I'm graduating this year with my high school diploma AND A.A. degree becaue I'm smart like that :)Go to hell and I'll smile :)"
--Yes, I am sure your mother is very proud of you!
There have been others...lots of the usual insults slung at me and others here. I usually post all of their crazy comments. But in this case, I think this thread is better off without them. The topic is sad. Karri Stokely is dying of AIDS at the hands of Rethinking AIDS. They will try to detract attention away from their sick selves. We have seen this too many times in the past. One day when her kids stumble on this blog, they will at least see there were people who had tried to pull their mother out of denial, albeit unsuccessfully.
Seth, based on a Facebook-mail I received, I know who posted that particular flame-comment, but I'm not calling out the poster's identity here. Suffice it to say, that person has been misled on a fundamental level, more so than most denialists.
ReplyDeleteOddly, I haven't received any outright inciting comments on my original post; every comment left so far has been published. I dissected a few typical rants, but nothing as inflammatory as that was posted there.
I think the "other" Todd (mentioned by name above) must have really made quite the impression on those idiot losers! They seem to have such a crush on him. I mean, he is hot, sexy and smart, but I have a feeling he is the type to like intellectual and mentally stable men so those losers will just have to keep jerking it to one of the hot, sexy pics he had posted at that awesome, fabulous blog that we all miss so much.
ReplyDeleteYes, the "other" Todd has even contacted me. He seems like a nice guy to me.
ReplyDeleteI do have to make one correction pointed out to me; the alleged reason for Karri's HIV+ status was exposure to tainted blood as an EMT, not a nurse. I typed that out without enough mental review, after re-reading my old e-mail conversations with another cousin (who was training to be a RN at the time).
As my post has finally made the familial rounds, and I need to include that correction, I anticipate (just) one followup post on my blog within the next few days to reconcile a few things, notably my expression of anger and its target. There are indeed parts of this situation that make my blood boil, but Seth was right; I could have phrased it a lot better.
I really miss the other Todd's blog. What's the story behind its disappearance ?
ReplyDeleteThe Vienna Review posted an article called:
ReplyDeleteThe Berlin AIDS Patient Demystifying AIDS and it looked like it might be leaning towards AIDS Denialism. However, it was the firsts part of a 2 part series but part two has never materialized in spite of it being two weeks ago. Have I missed Part II?
Here is Part I:
http://www.viennareview.net/front-page/berlin-patient-demystifying-aids-4887.html
For those following this story, I have no news to report on Karri's status, but I have posted a follow-up acknowledging my (partially) misplaced anger. It also summarizes my view of the denialism movement in general.
ReplyDeleteAs far as a certain blog that has gone away, my understanding is the author grew weary of the irrational and incessant harassment via his employer and decided to take all power away from those denialists perpetuating the harassment. Now, working anonymously, there are new, exciting things on the horizon.
ReplyDeleteDid a bad conscious finally wake you up Todd? If you have any at all.
ReplyDeleteOh the return of Todd, can hardly wait, here's an idea you could call yourself Joe Newton, aw shucks it's been done to death before.
ReplyDeleteLove the UConn website, it gives all of Seths colleagues work emails, now working on a distribution list for direct marketting purposes to his employer and peers, just a few links to this trash blogs "best of" series should throw enough doubt on his sanity and professionalism to calm him down, say let's start with a hart.blanton@Uconn.edu or maybe a U.Bede.Agocha@Uconn.edu ah endless possibilities, and howl all you want you thought it was fair game with Duesberg you cretin.
Threats and intimidation. Typical. They can't debate fairly, they hide behind pseudonyms and "aonymous" and now they are going to email Seth's colleagues! WOW! I'm sure Seth is shaking in his shoes.
ReplyDeleteGet a life! Or better yet, some integrity and a soul!
Karri is dead. My condolences to her family.
ReplyDeleteTold you so is probably not an appropriate response right now, but incase anyone is thinking of following the same path then perhaps its time to reconsider ?
It's probably best to wait for the officially reported cause of death, and even then, I think I already exhausted the "told-you-so" line of thinking in my first post that kicked all this off.
ReplyDeleteOMG! every condolences to karri and her family, I am so sorry
ReplyDeleteWe also missed the death of Farber's "The Truthbarrier"! On March 31 Farber wrote that she "came to the realization that she is opposed to free publication" of her fabulous tomes, witty short stories and esoteric poems. This is her new way of begging for money. Maybe this way will be more successful than the last time she literally begged for money and got a whopping $300!!
ReplyDeleteMaybe she should beg for some wacky, useless "medical procedure"...Jonathan Barnett got a thousand bucks out of some poor suckers for his IV Vitamin C which he recently admitted was "inconclusive". In other words, it did not work. His CD4 count jumped and then immediately fell the same amount. Hs Viral Load is higher than ever at 200K and climbing. The two masses in his neck are the same sizes and he still sleeps about 15 hours per day. Sounds like a typical success for a CAM. How about that, he SCAMMED cash for CAM.
Karri died? Wow - Kim Bannon outlived her! I never thought that would happen. How long before they hire Al-Bayatti to do a fake autopsy and how long before Clarkie writes some silly rant regarding a conspiracy? Maybe Clarkie will not respond, as he usually fails to when he gets caught lying.
ReplyDeleteIt's nice to see that Farber's "Barrier to Truth" is taken down. I suppose she needs to work on getting more money from her daddy to live since she spent her last few dimes on love-wavelength therapy. Someone should ask her - how's the libel lawsuit going? Doesn't sound very promising for her. She is one talentless retarded bitch who has an inflated narcissistic opinion of her droning wordage. Oh, yes, that applies to Clarkie Baker as well. Seen one retard denialist, seen them all.
Jonathan Barnett sounds like he is living a really healthy life...
ReplyDeleteIV Vitamin C...?
ReplyDeleteSelf-experiment?
WTF?
If he dies he will support the Null Hypothesis...Gary Null that is...
Pretty nuts.
Should be interesting to see what Rethinking AIDS does with Kari. Will she have a memorial like Maggiore?
Getting people to think twice before falling into denialism is the goal. If our efforts have been successful, there will not be another HIV+ mother for the Rethinkers to exploit.
OMG I just saw this! Blog post to follow.
ReplyDelete"If our efforts have been successful, there will not be another HIV+ mother for the Rethinkers to exploit."
ReplyDeleteTalking of HIV positive mothers exploited by Rethinking AIDS, has anyone else noticed the Zapata case grinding its way horribly through the Superior Court of California over the last year and a half?
Look up Alameda Courts Domain Web and type in case number RG10494568, for the case documents. (Alameda County is Oakland).
Lisa Zapata was diagnosed with HIV shortly after her marriage to Robert in 2000. By this stage, Robert had AIDS, but he claimed this was the first he knew of it. He was treated with HAART over a couple of the intervening years, but by the time he died in 2008 from a disseminated fungal infection he had been refusing treatment and was well and truly in denial for several years.
Lisa and Robert had two kids, in 2001 and 2004. Lisa refused treatment to prevent HIV transmission during the pregnancies - in fact she didn't even tell the obstetrician she had HIV. She had attended "meetings" that encouraged her in taking this position.
Lisa is trying to sue two of the doctors who tried to treat her husband's AIDS, and also the pharmaceutical company that makes Combivir. She claims they, not AIDS, caused Robert's death. Her attorney is D. David Steele (Duesberg's attorney, and sometime author of the Barnesworld "You Bet Your Life" website.)
D. David Steele has lined up a number of "expert witnesses" from among his Rethinking AIDS buddies, including Kary Mullis, Andrew Manoitis and Rodney Richards. Eleni Papadopulos and Valendar Turner declined to appear.
Rethinking AIDS has set up Lisa Zapata betting her own life, and that of her two kids on this latest Rethinking AIDS fiasco.
in December 2010, eleven months into the case preliminaries, the older child Veronica died.
She was nine years old.
Her underlying cause of death, according to the death certificate forwarded to the court was "Human Immunodeficiency Virus".
Clark Baker posted a bizarre rant about his involvement the case on his OMSJ site back in October, but he has since hidden it behind a login wall.
The Rethinking AIDS Body Count just keeps piling higher and higher.
This is my family you are talking about :-(
DeleteRobert was my uncle. Veronica... My little baby cousin.
I didn't know he was infected. I NEVER knew! He didn't tell the family. And then my dad and grandma didn't tell me until 2010 when Veronica started getting sick. I didn't get to see her often. I miss her a lot.
I don't speak to her mother anymore. I don't get to see my other cousin either.
She might see this post one day and I don't care.
He was my FAVORITE UNCLE! Always joking and laughing. Even with a secret hidden in the back of his mind. I didn't know the details. Just that she didn't believe in the drugs.
I miss him and baby V all the time. All the time. My grandma cries all the time. ALWAYS cries. There's pictures of her everywhere. I hope they find a cure for HIV and AIDS to save everyone else.
This is my family you are talking about :-(
DeleteRobert was my uncle. Veronica... My little baby cousin.
I didn't know he was infected. I NEVER knew! He didn't tell the family. And then my dad and grandma didn't tell me until 2010 when Veronica started getting sick. I didn't get to see her often. I miss her a lot.
I don't speak to her mother anymore. I don't get to see my other cousin either.
She might see this post one day and I don't care.
He was my FAVORITE UNCLE! Always joking and laughing. Even with a secret hidden in the back of his mind. I didn't know the details. Just that she didn't believe in the drugs.
I miss him and baby V all the time. All the time. My grandma cries all the time. ALWAYS cries. There's pictures of her everywhere. I hope they find a cure for HIV and AIDS to save everyone else.
This is my family you are talking about :-(
DeleteRobert was my uncle. Veronica... My little baby cousin.
I didn't know he was infected. I NEVER knew! He didn't tell the family. And then my dad and grandma didn't tell me until 2010 when Veronica started getting sick. I didn't get to see her often. I miss her a lot.
I don't speak to her mother anymore. I don't get to see my other cousin either.
She might see this post one day and I don't care.
He was my FAVORITE UNCLE! Always joking and laughing. Even with a secret hidden in the back of his mind. I didn't know the details. Just that she didn't believe in the drugs.
I miss him and baby V all the time. All the time. My grandma cries all the time. ALWAYS cries. There's pictures of her everywhere. I hope they find a cure for HIV and AIDS to save everyone else.
O
DeleteONE does not turn down the flu shot because it can give you a strain of the flu... Well said karen when uncle and veronica were taken nothings been the same and nothing will be .
DeleteKaren, I am so sad about what happened to your family. You make the very important point that AIDS denialism affects not only the people who get drawn into the cult, but also their family, their friends, and the people who love them.
DeleteNo one deserves for this to happen to them.
Karen,
DeleteI am so sorry to hear about what has happened to your family. It is really tragic.
I knew Robert back in the 90s when he was a member of Swank. We worked together, and I have such great memories of him! I then left S.F. and lost contact, and I just stumbled on this when doing an Internet search to see if I could recontact him. I can't even begin to express my truly heartfelt condolences for you and the rest of your family. He was such a great, fun guy! You just have to hang on to all the precious memories that you have (I'm sure there are many because he was so amazing). I will always keep him in my prayers.
Karen,
DeleteI too was a very good friend of your Uncle Rob's. We met in 1990 and were friends until his passing. We loved each other very much. There were many obsticals that keep us apart; I knew he was sick in 2002, he did not want me know what it was. About six months before he died, he called and said his goodbyes. From that point on, he never returned my calls or emails. I never met Lisa and we never talked about their relationship, just his wonderful family and children. I wish I could hear his voice again...
~T
Jonathan Barnett has finally written a post regarding the outcome of his one man, 8 week trial of IV Vitamin C. His conclusion: “inconclusive”. From the outset of the trial Jonathan had decided he would follow certain markers for this trial.
ReplyDelete1. CD4 Count
2. Viral Load
3. Parotid Mass Size
4. Mood and Energy
1. His CD4 count jumped 200 at the beginning and then fell back the same amount: 200. Although, even the initial jump could be attributed to Low Dose Naltrexone which JB also started taking in December around the same time as the IV Vitamin C. (Eventhough Low Dose Naltrexone is also a CAM SCAM.)
2.Viral Load continued skyrocketing upwards without even a tiny dip down. VL Doubled.
3.Parotid Mass Size did not change one millimeter.
4.His mood got better, but he attributes that to “Spring Fever” and he got an "energy buzz" with each infusion, but it did not last. He states that by Valentines Day, he stopped even getting that "energy buzz" and in fact was hit by the Fatigue Hammer and is back to sleeping 16 hours per day. So for the last two months of the trial his energy was non existent.
I know he is not a scientist, but when all four markers show no sign of improvement (and even become worse) at the end of the 8 weeks, that is quite simply, failure.
According to Questioning Aids Kim Bannon is dying now as well.Thats Emery Taylor,Karri Stokely and Kim Bannon in just a few months.All their public faces.What will it take for the remaining people to accept that they are wrong?And why do all the people who test positive die when those negative remain healthy?
ReplyDeleteI thought Maggiore's death would be the end of the madness, but the deniers just dusted themselves off, and went on without her. Now I am jaded. They'll more Emery and Karri for a bit and then move on to the next stooge.
ReplyDeleteThis is a VICTORY for the HIV=AIDS industry! Every death means MORE lies and toxic drugs! Go AIDS GO!!! (also Please come back since you went into decline in 1993 we need more money to "help people die with AZT and AVRs)
ReplyDeleteNotElon,
ReplyDeleteNo death will be the end of this for the AIDS Denialists. They can look right thru any death and make up whatever reason they want to as a cause for that death.
To the AIDS Denialists, death is just the cost of doing business. They are just like HIV itself in that they kill their host and then find another host to burrow into until they have sucked the life force away.
They will attribute Karri's death to her "gut flora" being decimated by ARVs or they will start whispering that Karri was secretly doing poppers or some other drug just like they did with Emory Taylor.
Clarkie hasn't commented on her death...predictably. Instead he is lying to the media:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/Organization-pushes-for-new-trial-for-sgt-in-HIV/zr93pZbJmEWJT1R9jBVwVA.cspx
I'm Todd's partner, and I think I was the first person he told about her death. (Sorry, I won't even grant her the dignity of a name.) The first time I ever saw her, I knew something was 'off'. (I knew plenty of people who had died BEFORE the "cocktail" and I knew that she was ill.)
ReplyDeleteThrough his family I heard varying stories over the 15 years we've been together. (Those who I won't call bisexual) men have been blamed. Blood transfused or magically infused has been blamed. The magic needle prick has been blamed. Never once did she accept anything other than her "victim" status.
I was shocked when she and her fellow Denialists went on the attack against Todd for DARING to present credible evidence against her ignorance. (We have both seen too many people die to bow and scrape for stupidity dressed in a medical gown.) This was after his family (cloaked in mystery, as always) asked Todd to "talk some sense" to her.
She's dead. I'll say something good about her (as the old saying goes). Good, she's dead. She can't lie and hurt anyone else. Her disciples have accused us of having HIV/AIDS. (We don't, but why would that be shameful? We could both live way past the time I imagined as a child thanks to medical advances.) They can stuff their stigma where the cross doesn't cast a shadow.
Our primary care physician would eat them for breakfast (because she became a doctor to fight the disease).
They've wished us the most absolutely miserable deaths imaginable - in detail. These are heinous, desperate people who need intervention STAT. They have serious mental disorders, and they need treatment.
I stand with Todd 100%. I was sad when I met his cousin, and I'm sad (in far too many ways) that she fell the way she did. The abuse Todd has suffered (postmortem) from her family is deplorable. Someday in the future, her progeny will have to make amends — not just to Todd, but to those who died because of the ignorance she passed on. The vitriol he has encountered has been toxic and vile. I'm amazed at how low a family can sink.
I wish you all the best of health and the best of luck. I'm painfully sorry that you ever had to encounter my partner's cousin. Be good to each other.
way to stick by your partner, He did a great thing with this article, It's to bad we can't get more people out that are related to these crazy people, like your partner did, and shine a light on their lies, no matter how painfull it may be, the life you save might just be your own. Thanks again. :)
DeleteWell said, Adam.
ReplyDeleteI hope Todd will write an update an detail just what the Stokely family (especially Joe) put Todd thru post mortem. These people are definitely dispicable and that story would further underscore the lenghts to which they will stoop.
Kalichman:
ReplyDeleteYour nothing but a ghoul who has a hard-on for hosting circle-jerks around peoples graves, while in your free time your adding to your stock portfolio. Do you think your father will let you be a professor in hell?
You idiots don't know any better than those people you judge as if you were God, none of you know shit about the AIDS virus, except of course-that "IT MOST CERTAINLY AIN'T GOOD!
Sure the damn thing will kill your ass, do any of you believe that you can't actually die if you take the drugs? All the people who did are unable to chime-in it. Duh?
Who's the expert on the virus here, where did it come from, give me you best shot genius.
I sure hope somebody is brave enough and attempts a poke at me.
I will turn you all into a denialist of a different sort, mark my words. lol I will give you monkey's something you can really mull over.
"Like lambs to the slaughter."
what ever asshole, plenty of us know more than you think we know, You are in with a group that doesn't know shit about the AIDS virus, fuck you
DeleteKalichman:
ReplyDeleteI just noticed your remark regarding the I.V. vitamin-c, if that guy wouldn't have done that, he would have cancer instead of what he most likely has instead "cysts".
Ever heard of professor Linus Pauling and his go around with cancer dumbass?
If you let me post here, I really will make you famous, just not for any good reasons looser.
Professor? lol You should be teaching on-line courses for the University of Phonix, your junk.
Karri Stokely is NOT a victim in any sence of the word here, she is a monster. plain and simple. I'm really sorry to say that the world is better off without people like this in it. HIV is a real problem, The end result is AIDS and death, yet we have people like this telling people it's not true, the meds will not help, whatever. Her and Maggiore are frying together in hell for the pain and suffering they have caused to literally hundreds of thousands of people. I hope you girls like it hot.
ReplyDeleteMy god you people are fkin STUPID!
ReplyDeleteAre you kidding me ofcourse she was going to die after have taken the dangerous AZT for 11 years. I don't even know where to begin but what the hell, those of you americans who are HIV+ and feel you need your medication, please keep taking them. Your ignorance will be your death.
I know for a fact these meds are keeping me alive, in 2005 I was diagnsoeed with full blown Aids, I was given a couple daysto live, meningitis, anemeic, sweating provusely for 6 months and collapsing, I was in ICU 1 month and started on 3 drugs..Ive gone to the VA since I am an ex marine and 6 years later Im still here. Ive been hiv positive since 1995. I have gained my weight back, exercise and continue to improve. I wrote a book on Amazon called "My life, a life story of a man infected" It follows my whole life. Ive been homeless, Ive been down and out and Ive also owned property and an elcetrical business. My own father killed himself when I was 17. I think these people who spout these outlandish beliefs are in complete denial. Look at the medical proof, read about the HIV virus and how it mutates, it doesnt matter how it got here, its real believe me, I have it and it almost killed me. The drugs may be toxic but whats the alternative? Six feet under is toxic too, you just wont have a mouth to talk about it. The worms will be eating whats left of it. Think about it, we are all made up of cells, the cells die, we die...its simple common sense. Sometimes people with too much time on their hands think too much which is where this garbage makes its debut...AIDS does kill, plain and simple..
ReplyDeleteWhen you take ARV it is like drinkind Bleach and sulfuric acid a bit every day. Probably you won´t get any infection, but the "bleach and sulfuric acid"=ARV will destroy day after day the body in a non-reversible way. So lets say you take ARV for 5 months, 5 years , or 10 then you stop taking them. ¿What happens? well your body has no more protection from the "bleach and the sulfuric acid"=ARV against infecctions and your body is so damaged that the brain, the kidneis the liver and the bones are not able any longer to defend yourself again. So in a period of 2 or 3 years the patient dies because the body is completelly damaged. That´s the reason why Maria, Kerry, Lambros died...Once you start ARV is forever until you died. If you stops ARV you problably die also now that you only have 50% of normal factory-body functions. I have witnessed patients with irreversible damage for only 6 months of every day being poissoned with ARV. Cristine was killed by the threatment in the hospital as you can read in her autopsy.And Emery according to his own videos his food was based on meat and potatoes and we should ask his partner if : a) was he recieving semen anally (wich is inmune supresor) b)was he on any drugs poppers? c)¿did he died just after taking the arv as hospital precribed to him?. No hiv virus has ever found in the blood of any "inexistan-hiv-retrovirus" patients (1,16 sucrosa gradient, electro microscopy)
ReplyDeleteyou find me an aids denialist that never took their drugs that has died... they dont exist. every death of aids denialist is people who stopped the toxic drugs.... too little too late..... the damage is already done.... and is not reversible. Stokely clearly illustrates her liver was on the precipice of failing while on the drugs. That damage just didn't go away when she stopped them. These people you dumb asses claim as dying from denialism are dying from the drugs you are telling them fixes them. quit being so fucking stupid.
ReplyDeleteWell AIDS is a syndrome you can link many elements to Karri's demise to number of things since AIDS has a long list of illnesses linked to it. But you can't link her to the HIV virus. That's the arguement for the AIDS denialist. The HIV virus has never been isolated. Sure Karri and Christine Maggorie lost their lives but did any one ever stop and consider Co-facors? The man who discovered this virus Dr. Luc Montanganier is a big believer in co-factors. Because HIV tests can't fully confirm the presense of HIV in an individual's body (read the disclaimers) i believe there's many other health related conditions out there that have yet to be properly identified because people call everything with an antibody response HIV. Just because you have an antibody response (which is what HIV test look for) doesn't mean you have the virus. It can mean many things. I challege everybody here to take a CD4 or T-Cell test and see what the results are. Not ever body has a CD4 count of 200 plus. Yet the medical community won't allow healthy people to take a CD4 test without an HIV diagnosis. Same thing with the viral load test. I challenge everyone on here to take a viral load test and believe me you will see results there as well. These tests aren't reliable and are used to trick people into thinking they have HIV. Even the inventor of the PCR or the "Viral load test" even is against them using his machine for HIV confirmation because it does NOT confirm the presense of HIV. The western blot test is a load of nonsense as well. here in america you will get diagnosed with 2 or 3 strands depending on clinic or the doctor. In Austrailia and Canada you need more strands to get a diagnosis, so yes. You can go to another country and become HIV- because you're not positive accounding to their standards. Europe doesn't even use the Western Blot test. So these are things I question. Unless we can fully examine an individuals blood underneath and electron microscope and actually see the "virus" then I am convinced! don't give me viral load tests, CD4 count tests, western blots or rapid HIV test because those are just full of shit!
ReplyDeleteOn a less well spoken note;
DeleteI have been dodging this page for a few days due to the Nazi style of this blog-spot. I'm not going to go into the factual reasons of why I'm here, anonymous has covered me on all that above (thank you).
I am up to my tits of seeing help-lines and books, comments and bad information in order to help us denialists. The only thing we are in denail of is that billions of money has been spent on this study and they have nothing to show for it..people are greedy and bad, are they not?? And when people have lots of money they get more greedier and worse, do they not?
We have absolutely all the reason in the world to think that HIV causes AIDS is a load of BOLLOCKS:
Testimonies of people HIV+ and still alive 30 years later who have NEVER taken cocktail drugs of any sort are good enough for me.
Luc Montanganier's words that taking antioxidants is enough to fix the whole ordeal also makes my day better!
Gallo being a crooked prick..sin mas.
The fact that the disease was pin pointed on the African race and homosexuals is also a bit curious to me.. seeing as the inventors of this 'pandemic' are all a bunch of bloodless Nazis!
Conclusion:
If my immune system is really deteriorating..and I am really infected by this super-wacky-hide-and-seek virus, I prefers to go down with mother nature! Because being on cocktails is murder..feeding the rich and selling your soul to these people is not cool. Were all a bunch of guinea pigs.
AID$ kills..
peace!
(This does not serve as any medical advice..this is pure personal opinion, intuition and bad temper)
xxoo
Lindsey Nagel. Hiv positive with over 20 years witnout meds. Why?
ReplyDelete1. Denialist lies
ReplyDelete2. Denialist dies
Nature wins.