Blind romantics still believe that Rethinking AIDS Society President David Crowe actually exists. But if David Crowe has never been met in person, does he really exist?
Never met in person?
You bet!
I know there are pictures of David Crowe, but are they really him? Do they meet my standards of real photo identification?
I know there are pictures of David Crowe, but are they really him? Do they meet my standards of real photo identification?
Or is that just an actor playing David Crowe in the AIDS denialist videos we see?
David Crowe has a website, but that could be anyone.
David Crowe writes articles for online health food magazines, but there is a conspiracy among naturalists, the vitamin industry, and the herbal medicine cartel that keeps the David Crowe myth going.
Go ahead, prove me wrong.
I am offering a free copy of my book Denying AIDS to anyone who can PROVE that David Crowe exists.
If you or a friendly 'AIDS dissident' can prove that David Crowe exists, a free copy of the book will be yours, signed by the author.
Interested? Pledge the book to your local library or book burning. Why not?
You will also receive Richard Wilson’s new book "Don't Get Fooled Again”, also good for reading or burning. In addition, Chris Nobel has pledged $500 to charity.
I bet you'll be surprised to discover the truth.
UPDATE: Still no proof that Crowe exists.
Why not?
We can only conclude that David Crowe is a Myth. If the President of Rethinking AIDS does not exist, what does that say about Rethinking inc.?
UPDATE: This image was recently identified from the Internet of what
some have said is David Crowe (the organic material to the left with flagella adhered to the superior facial labia). The surrounding organic matter (the bald dudes) however calls into question whether this is actually David Crowe. Thus, although this image could be the pathogen referred to as David Crowe, there remains no independent proof. 
There are those that argue that David Crowe has never been isolated by the most rigorous method science has to offer – and that this oversight should be rectified as soon as possible.
ReplyDeleteOthers dispute the exact relationship between David Crowe and AISD (Acquired Internet Stupidity Disorder). While all cases of David Crowe invariably result in AISD, an analysis of the 50 or so most barking mad pages on whale.to - the Gold Standard website of seriously delusional brain frying Stupid - found that not all of the content was by Crowe, and some was by other nutcase cranks such as Mohammed A. Al-Bayati, Len Horowitz, Anthony Brink and the seriously deranged Stefan Lanka.
A brief overview of whale.to’s contribution to AIDS science can be found here:
http://www.whale.to/aids.html
And here’s (the alleged) David Crowe’s coming contribution to our understanding of.., well… David Crowe’s… um… peculiar belief system.
http://theinfectiousmyth.com/
Apart from the fact that this is just rude and silly, what is it that confuses you about his existence? I guess the answer is nothing and that's your point. But what you're missing is that there are many reasonable questions about the thing called "HIV". The point about the EM pictures is that none of them are actually pictures of HIV coming DIRECTLY from an "AIDS" patient, no matter how high the alleged "viral load". And if you got any conclusive scientific evidence as to why the so called "HIV tests" should be so much trusted then please share it. Don't tease the "denialists", they're already in a miserable situation aren't they? How can they be helped if you won't even share the information they so much ask for?
ReplyDeletesadunkal
ReplyDeleteI am not being rude nor am I being silly.
There is no evidence that David Crowe actually exists.
His website is unreliable. There is no validity to his so called ‘writings’. I cannot find anyone who has ever met him.
Have you met him?
If so can you prove it was actually him?
I know Peter Duesberg exists, I have met him and there is confirming evidence beyond my photographs. Although Peter Duesberg seems like a harmless passenger scientist, he is actually quite destructive over long periods of time.
But Mr. Crowe? I don’t know? That is why I am offer the reward for proof.
Dear Seth, it appears that you either don't understand the arguments of skeptical scientists or you have access to some secret information. I suspect the first.
ReplyDeleteYou put a quote from Winstone Zulu as if his situation is representative of all dissidence. It is obvious that his decisions were motivated more by emotions than science. But that's not the case with 99% percent of the dissidents who really take the time to examine the science instead of relying purely on others' opinions. I think this is not clear to you. And it is sad that people like you are so eager to turn this into something ridiculous like this when what's needed was only respectful, objective, scientific debates for the past 25 years.
Check this out you're interested in a critique of your favorite word: In Dispraise of "Denialist" and "Denier" Labels
At least pictures exist of me, David Crowe, isolated from any other living being which is more than can be said for HIV as pictures of purified HIV, separated from all other carbon-based life forms (if we can stretch the definition of 'living' to a virus).
ReplyDeleteSeth, for further verification, I have a deal for you. If you're ever in Calgary come on over for a barbecue. We'll play a game. By the end of the night you can guess which of the friends I have over are HIV-positive (and for approximately how long) and which are HIV-negative. If the HIV=AIDS theory has predictive value you should be good at this game.
I still see no evidence that Mr. Crowe exists in these comments.
ReplyDeleteInviting me to Calgary Canada to meet David Crowe is not proof? Calgary? Really?
Is Calgary a likely home to a man who knows more about AIDS science than the world’s leading medical researchers? Calgary, with about the lowest HIV prevalence in North America?
How do we know he is not just some fictitious passenger person made up by someone to fool us. Perhaps Matthias Rath has created Mr. Crowe to help market his vitamin cures?
Suggesting that if HIV truly causes AIDS then one would expect to see a scarlet letter on the face of the infected person or some other obvious disfiguration, is that something that someone like the supposed Mr. Crowe would say?
Would a real expert in viruses suggest that a virus particle is living?
Wouldn’t a real expert in viruses know that viruses are made of components of cells and that ‘pure virus’ is another myth?
The mythical ‘dissident’ Mr. Crowe has two Bachelor’s degrees, one in math and one in science?
Who gets two bachelors degrees in such closely related areas, never goes on for a graduate degree, and then proclaims to understand the complexity of immunology, microbiology, virology, pharmacokinetics, and epidemiology?
I am not convinced that the so called ‘pictures’ are real images of ‘Mr. Crowe.’ The supposed photographs may very well be of anyone. I have found lots of images posted on the internet that look like the supposed Mr. Crowe.
I would like for the denialists to show proof that he exists rather than just saying he exists.
Has anyone ever met ‘David Crowe’ in person?
Perhaps a photo of David Crowe with someone who is known to exist. How about a photo of Mr. Crowe with Peter Duesberg or David Rasnick?
There are even photos of me with Peter Duesberg and David Rasnick?
Or how about a photo of Mr. Crowe with Henry Bauer? There is a photo of the Loch Ness Monster, but not of Nessie with Henry Bauer…so can we say that Nessies exist? Perhaps just as much as we can say Mr. Crowe exists.
Rather than hiding behind their dogma, the denialists should produce proof that David Crowe exists, not just more of the same rhetoric.
I know that many of you think this is a joke. It is not.
Can anyone prove that David Crowe exists?
I have had the same concern. I have asked several dissidents and no one seems to have met him. This worries me. The implications of David Crowe being a fake are devastating to the movement. Can someone please prove that David Crowe exists and put an end to this.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the scientific proof that "Calgary" exists? I've never been there.
ReplyDeleteCan we have the one study testing and proving the existence or non-existence of Calgary as a geographical entity, please.
And no, I'm not interested in any study of so-called "Calgary" that begins with the assumption it exists. Proof, please.
(I reckon it sounds suspiciously like the brand name of one of Gary Null's calcium supplements.)
The plot thickens.
I am sure Calgary exists. I mean I have never been there, but I am sure it exists.
ReplyDeleteAnd I am sure David Crowe exists too.
Can someone PLEASE provide proof that David Crowe does exist? I mean, this is getting out of control. If AIDS, inc. manages to persuade people that David Crowe is a fabrication then we can all be called frauds. Please, it cannot be that hard to prove his existence…. Christine Maggiore must have met him at some point…isn’t there a picture?
I can see what Snout is saying about Calgary. I have been thinking that International vitamin salesman Matthias Rath may have concocted David Crowe to push his vitamin sales. But I see what you are saying about Calgary and Gary Null. That is so much more likely.
ReplyDeleteGary Null is discussed so frequently at Quackwatch.com that he has no credibility. He could really use a ‘David Crowe’ to promote his natural remedies and herbal potions.
Without proof that David Crowe exists, it does seem that the Null Hypothesis is our most likely explanation for David Crowe.
I cannot believe what the AIDS Orthodoxy is doing now. I know David Crowe must exist. I have not met him, but I follow the ARAS website and I know he exists. Can someone please prove that he exists so that AIDS inc. stops calling him a fake person? There must be proof that David Crowe is a man rather than Gary Null!
ReplyDeleteDavid Crowe could be a real person, and I've read the numerous websites, letters, and uproariously silly "press releases" that bear his name. But David Crowe has never been conclusively linked to them as their true author. Leastways, not in a peer reviewed publication.
ReplyDeleteGood call, Seth! Your book is on my reading list. I personally will not be convinced of David Crowe's existence until someone manages to purify and isolate him in a laboratory from his fresh, uncultured bodily fluids, AND comprehensively explain how it is that he came to be there in the first place.
ReplyDeleteMy own view is that if this mythical "denialist" is in fact real, then he's almost certainly nothing new. Dig a little deeper and you'll find that "David Crowe" is just a generic catch-all name for a whole host of localised phenomena - contrarianism, obscurantism, autodidactism, delusion, and plain-old stubbornness - that are probably as old as humankind.
I am sure Calgary exists. I mean I have never been there, but I am sure it exists
ReplyDeleteThis is a natural reaction when one's deeply held beliefs are challenged. You have to learn to let go of your previously held assumptions, such as the existence of an independent geographical location labeled "Calgary", and follow the evidence no matter how painful it is for you.
Simply put - where is the proof for the existence of "David Crowe"?
I'll pledge $500 to a charity of choice if anyone can provide such proof.
At least pictures exist of me, David Crowe, isolated from any other living being which is more than can be said for HIV as pictures of purified HIV, separated from all other carbon-based life forms.
ReplyDeleteI doubt this. The entity labeled "David Crowe" in these photos contains a majority of bacterial cells. This is not isolation! Previous dogma had maintained that Denialists were simply a host for bacteria but new evidence suggests that DLEs (Denialist Like Entities) are excreted by bacteria as natural part of their reproductive cycle.
We met David Crowe in person in a meeting in New York City two years ago, and have the photograph to prove it. But why should you even engage in this trivial and indefensible pose? Presumably only as a joking thrust against those who maintain the dread retrovirus doesn't in fact exist as an entity of fixed makeup?
ReplyDeleteDenying the existence of David Crowe if meant seriously is on a par with denying the literature review of HIV/AIDS which reveals there is not a single good scientific reason now to suppose that HIV is the cause of any AIDS symptoms. We at scienceguardian.com like to call such resistance to common sense and the scientific literature Denialism.
For some reason there appears to be a Freudian slip in Mr K’s naming of his site, since denying reality seems to be a theme there, one would say, a tendency beside which the efforts of reformers to change the paradigm from the always unproven and unjustified HIVis/AIDS to HIVisnot/AIDS look like anti-Denialism indeed.
But of course as we have said before the mark of narcissism in any domestic battle is to accuse the other of exactly what you are yourself, in line with the principle that attack is the best form of defense since it draws opponents away from your weakest points.
But there is no question that the true Denialists in HIV/AIDS are its proponents and the paradigm goons that defend it with scientific nonsense and the kind of stink emanated from skunks when you kick them.
None of this applies to the esteemed host of this blog, of course, however misguided his attempts to defend the indefensible.
I cannot comment on a photograph that I cannot see. I have heard such photographs exist, so why is the denialist establishment holding them back?
ReplyDeleteI do not doubt that the events you describe happened and that you have the photograph you mention. Obviously though, your comment is not proof that David Crowe exists.
Have you ever met Gary Null? Perhaps the person you met in New York was Gary Null? Could he have been a front for Gary Null, an actor he has hired?
I would like to see the single piece of evidence that meets my standards for proof that David Crowe exists.
So far, none.
Chris, so far it sure looks like your $500 and my signed book are safe.
Word is spreading that there is no proof that David Crowe exists!
ReplyDeleteThe website 'Dont Get Fooled Again' has posted the same thing we are seeing AIDS inc. doing here!
@http://richardwilsonauthor.wordpress.com/2008/12/31/hefty-reward-offered-to-anyone-who-can-prove-the-existence-of-david-crowe/
Please, with the death of Christine Maggiore, we cannot take another hit like this.
I cannot myself prove he exists, but I know he does because I trust Christine and she must have known him. Can someone please put an end to this maddness!
If you confirm your offer of your book, we will send you the photograph, or more photos, if they are in the file.
ReplyDeleteIs that sufficient?
HerericNYC
ReplyDeleteThank you for your response.
The lack of proof for David Crowe’s existence has become distressful for several readers, especially at this particularly difficult time.
If you submit your pictures, I will post them on this blog. My expert panel will examine the pictures. Once validated as proof that David Crowe exists you will receive the reward.
You can send them to me at aidsandbehavior@yahoo.com
Seth,
ReplyDeleteThe vitamin industry pays people to post disinformation on the internet. Vitamins are a billion dollar industry. They will do anything to protect their profits.
I suspect that "HereticNYC" is one of these fake internet personas. Why else would he spend all this time promoting the existence of imaginary entities such as "David Crowe"? For all we know "HereticNYC" could be Gary Null or Matthias Rath.
If they have peer-reviewed proof of the existence of "David Crowe" then let them present it. Otherwise they are just spreading disinformation and doubt. We can't be distracted by these vitamin-shills in our pursuit of the truth.
Will do, although David Crowe has been published in several newspapers and magazines, and often emails correspondents, so it is absurd to question his existence, especially given that he runs a very good and active website. His consistent nature and independent action over time are therefore established. The photograph will only confirm what is already known.
ReplyDeleteOf course, if he was completely inactive then it would be more difficult and a photograph would be helpful rather than surplus.
In any case, will send, and await with breathless anticipation the receipt of your incredible, watershed book.
I'm pleased to see that progress is finally being made in the effort to decide, once and for all, the vital question of David Crowe's existence. In support of this noble and urgent cause, I am prepared to add to the rewards already on offer, by making available a free copy of my book "Don't Get Fooled Again" to anyone who is able to provide the proof that Seth is seeking, validated to the fair and objective standards he has outlined.
ReplyDeleteI can see that there are no new postings for a while. Does that mean that you are going to withdraw this foolish question and aknowledge that David Crowe is a real and good and ethical man living in Canada and fighting AIDS inc?
ReplyDeleteThat is a strange conclusion.
ReplyDeleteNo evidence = David Crowe exists?
Sounds like denialism of the missing denialist?
No, no proof of David Crowe means no proof.
So it seems David Crowe probably does not exist. Why would you believe anything at the Alberta Reappraising AIDS or Rethinking AIDS websites if there cannot even be proof that David Crowe does not exist?
Anonymous: "David Crowe is a real and good and ethical man living in Canada and fighting AIDS inc"
ReplyDeleteAnonymous - I'm not surprised that you chose to withhold your name - it seems that the propagandists of the "David Crowe is real" dominant paradigm orthodoxy myth hoax religion death cult are so ASHAMED of their beliefs that they now even feel the need to disguise their identity. Meanwhile, anyone who even QUESTIONS the "David Crowe = real person" orthodoxy is labeled as "foolish" and viciously vilified and attacked, simply for airing their doubts. Well we will NOT submit to your oppressive behaviour, Anonymous, however much you attack us with your labels. Come out of your little eggshell and wake up and smell the coffee, Anonymous! I'm sure that you would love to see us all burned at the stake, like the "heretics" who questioned the authority of the Mediaeval Catholic Church that you obviously so admire. But as long as we have breath in our bodies (and a broadband internet connection) we will continue to debate this difficult and troubling question with a TRULY open mind.
Richard is right.
ReplyDeleteWithout proof, why should we just go along with the idea that David Corwe exists. I can prove I exist. Just Google me. I know Richard exists, I Googled him. But David Crowe? Go ahead and Google Dave Crowe and see what you get?? Where does he work? What has he done to valid his existence? Without proof, why keep dumping that toxic verbiage posted at 'his' websites in your mind?
So I took your suggestion AIDS inc. I googled David Crowe. I found that there seem to be many David Crowes.
ReplyDelete1. David Crowe has been living on death row in Georgia for more than 18 years.
2.David Crowe the Comedian (looks like Brian Carter - could it be him?)
3. David Crowe the Musician (not a Foo Fighter)
4. David Crowe "one of the world’s foremost experts in botanical medicine, natural health and ecological sustainability"
5. David Crowe chief economist at the National Association of Home Builders
There are plenty of others with proven existences. But our David Crowe seems to only be on the dissident websites?
I see your point? How can I trust someone who may not exist?
You SEE Anonymous?! Looks like Becca has exposed the fatal flaw in your paradigm!!! How can ONE person be all of those FIVE things at the same time?
ReplyDeleteThe tide is turning, the mask is slipping, and the CRACKS are beginning to show!! More and more people are questioning the "DAVID CROWE = REAL PERSON" hypothesis orthodoxy religion cult! Soon there will be THOUSANDS of us. You can try all you like to shore up this defunct paradigm, but the genie is out of the bottle, the truth is out there, and the fat lady is about to sing her final encore...
I am not sure if this is a hoax or not. I have followed David Crowe and the ARAS website for years. But when I did a google search I could not find 'proof' that he does exist. I mean I could find verifiable proof that even I existed! It does seem he could be a fake front in a vitamin scheme. I hate to admit that and I hate this blog, but now I am at a loss. I now feel I cannot trust the vitamin industry anymore than I can trust the pharmaceuticals. Who can I trust?
ReplyDeleteIt's a hard fact to have to accept, given the overwhelming dominance of the dominant orthodoxy paradigm, but I applaud you for facing up to the undeniable obvious truth:
ReplyDeleteDavid Crowe is just a myth disseminated and cross-media-marketed by the herbal-industrial complex. Back in the early 1990s, Big Chakra realised they needed a new way to boost sales of their highly non-toxic pills and potions. David Crowe was the solution they came up with. Even though the side-effects are now known to be deadly, those who've seen the truth are mostly just too afraid or too personally compromised to speak out.
OH, GOD,
ReplyDeleteI just read this thread for the first time and I am laughing my butt off. What is so funny, is the posters whom most would consider "orthodox" are the ones with the sense of humor...twisted as it is!
The "dissidents" are the ones who are not quite sure if this is 100% serious or not!
(Do they not think humor actually exists?)
Keep up the fun. Who said HIV/AIDS had to be stuffy?
I personally would just like proof that Clark Baker is not a lying, psychotic bully!!
J. Todd DeShong
Crowe sceptics of the world unite - We're taking this campaign
ReplyDeleteonto the buses!
Hmmm - let's try that again...
ReplyDeleteonecleverkid wrote:
ReplyDeleteI have met David Crowe many times. I have fished the LA River with Christine Maggiore. But, I have never met you, so as far as I know, you are not real and therefore should not be trusted.
Whoa whoa! I am so confused now. I just read your "missing denialist" blog and it sounds like you have conjured up a crazy conspiracy of your own, that an actor plays David Crowe and that he does not even exist. Do you have a theory as to why someone would bother and which side of the argument they really exist on? Is this a case of triple-cross in the AIDS world? Cointelpro gone awry? Please offer me some guidance.
onecleverkid
ReplyDeleteIt is common for AIDS denialists to say that we are ‘crazy’ and label us ‘conspiracy theorists’. Is the idea of creating a cyber-image to undermine AIDS science, propagate AIDS myths, and market nutrition supplements, vitamins and herbal cures really far-fetched?
Everyone knows the Vitamin/Supplement cartel, such the Matthias Raths and Gary Nulls, will stop at nothing. In fact, one theory is that David Crowe is a composite of a multiple vitamin salesmen working together. Another is that it is just one person (possibly Gary Null) is posing a ‘David Crowe’ to increase market share.
Think of the inconsistencies:
Claims to have two BS degrees in math and science. Who gets two BS degrees?
Is a ‘freelance journalist’. What is a freelance journalist?
Has no record of verifiable employment. What is with that?
No validated authentic pictures of him. Who just has pictures of himself alone?
Lives in Calgary? (some believe that Calgary is code for CALcium sold by GARY null)
Who else promotes AIDS denial, cancer denial, universal forced breast feeding, and mandatory retention of foreskins?
It is not on us to prove that David Crowe does not exist. If denialists would just submit the few simple pieces of evidence. But no evidence yet. And as you can see the supposed ‘Mr. Crowe’ has been to this blog ‘himself’. So where is the evidence it was not someone else. I can prove my existence. So why not David Crowe??
I have been HIV+ for more than 22 years, never took any medicine and got any oportunistic disease related to AIDS. I am an also a biostatistician, and studied molecular biologist. I don´t think much of myself as a dissident, much less a denialist. Actualy I feel that there are denialist on both side.
ReplyDeleteWhat I have seen in all this years are major inconsistancies, and big unexplained and I trully feel that this are the reason why we have a dissident group. Being a scientist is not about being right is about practicing a method that not only implies proving a theory but also trying to disprove it! It is about being open minded, and tollerant to discrepancy.
Anonymous
ReplyDeleteNo argument from me. To be clear, I would not call you an AIDS Denialist. Not at all. I make that pretty clear in Chapter One of Denying AIDS. You recognize that you have HIV infection and it sounds like you are informed and have been making good decisions for your health. I agree that the science of AIDS has not answered many questions. In fact, there are numerous questions under study. What we need is more good research. What we do not need is conspiracy theories, pseudoscience, and misinformation. So thank you for your thoughtful comment. Glad you are doing well and I bet you continue to thrive!!