tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post8793381525349644325..comments2024-02-25T14:29:44.021-05:00Comments on Denying AIDS and other oddities: Moron AIDS Denialist Film House of Numbers: Notes from the showSeth Kalichmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01715826946361587097noreply@blogger.comBlogger79125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-21697290386069028892013-10-03T12:58:29.233-04:002013-10-03T12:58:29.233-04:00There is evidence that even the government is lyin...There is evidence that even the government is lying about HIV as it is. It says on AIDS.gov that the Western Blot test is a confirmatory test, when in reality it is not. Nothing that recommends a follow up is confirmatory. If the government is lying about AIDS or HIV testing, why wouldn't others? Honestly, I read early on in these comments that people like calling others denialists in an almost phobic way. Christ, I suppose all Russians are Communists, too? If people try to disprove a norm, they are automatically wrong? House of Numbers uses logic and facts, not damn none sense. Even Gallo retracted his research as false, the man that labeled HIV/AIDS. Stop being sheep and prove shit before you believe it. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-45932463366271416842011-01-26T13:11:01.481-05:002011-01-26T13:11:01.481-05:00Actually you guys do insult people! Even a genius ...Actually you guys do insult people! Even a genius ask questions. This whole fucking world has been a lie. You all need to start doing more research and stop believing everything you hear! Just like you all believe the Media! Most of you have no souls! There sold!You guys get very offended when people actually look into conspiracies and shit. This satanic shit will end soon. Christ is coming. Fuck you money lover's. Your time is coming!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-57894222537871373252009-11-15T23:20:50.170-05:002009-11-15T23:20:50.170-05:00It' moronic because Aids disidents are idiots,...It' moronic because Aids disidents are idiots, proof on hivchat.org!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-7196350421163471492009-11-05T04:01:34.068-05:002009-11-05T04:01:34.068-05:00The producers of House of Numbers consistently ref...The producers of House of Numbers consistently refuse to provide advance screeners of their film. This is a practice uncommon in the film festival circuit: Most producers (though there are exceptions) WILL provide screeners prior to screening.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-69412394661148927152009-11-01T11:25:34.740-05:002009-11-01T11:25:34.740-05:00Fender52 you make a very wild and damning statemen...Fender52 you make a very wild and damning statement. Can you back it up? Of course not. <br />What is up with you denialists throwing out such defamatory, libelous comments lately? <br />Just like Elizabeth Ely on Sonnabend's POZ blog throwing out libelous statements and Celia Farber on the Spectator UK making libelous statements and character assasinations, you are doing the same here. None of you are backing up those statements with even a semblance of facts. Are you all asking to be sued? You better watch out because the deserved lawsuits you ask for will not be a Publicity Stunt like the bogus suit filed by Farber back in May!!<br />JTDjtdeshonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881997315363701292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-35279930773921819672009-11-01T01:03:55.646-04:002009-11-01T01:03:55.646-04:00Mr. Kalichman - When I read your post October 1st ...Mr. Kalichman - When I read your post October 1st post, in which you transcribed, word for word, some sections of "House of Numbers," I was amused by your transparently disingenuous self-assessment ("well, I am a really good note taker"). I assumed someone with more interest in your drearily predictable and annoyingly shrill little website would call out your childish boast for the lie that is is. I didn't give it a second thought. However, with the recent web posting of a complete transcription of the film, ponderously annotated in agonizing detail, I think it time to point out the obvious; you and your comrades-in-arms have obtained, without permission or legal authorization, a copy of the unreleased film. You may have gotten it from a festival screener/employee, you may have surreptitiously recorded it at a screening, it matters not. What is pertinent to the discussion on this particular blog is the simple fact that you<br />have shown yourself to be a braggart, a liar, and a thief. This is beyond dispute. I find it personally distasteful to be so blunt, but since the discourse on this site, (and others like it where you are omni-present), is so foul, so narcissistic and vitriolic, I can forgive myself for a slight lapse in civility. Braggadocio can be amusing, dissembling (or "misspeaking" a la Hillary Clinton) is ubiquitous these days, but thievery is far more damning, and far more revealing of one's true character. Or lack thereof.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-87695229498540074402009-10-29T19:40:39.195-04:002009-10-29T19:40:39.195-04:00Anonymous
Thanks for posting.
I must say that when...Anonymous<br />Thanks for posting.<br />I must say that when it comes to HIV causing AIDS, the validity of HIV testing, and the effectiveness of HIV treatments, there is no fence. <br /><br />There is a lot of confusion caused by a small group of AIDS Denialists. If you really want answers, then I suggest doing 2 things. <br /><br />1. Go to the websites I list to the right under the heading 'Learn more about AIDS' Check out their credibility (not just credential) and the science behind what they say.<br /><br />2. Go to the websites to the right under the heading 'A World of AIDS Denialism' and do the same.<br /><br />You see back and forth insults here because this blog is about AIDS Denialism not about proving the science of AIDS. We try to tone down the insults, but AIDS denialists can be pretty frustrating. We do not host any pseudodebates here. The information is out there....based on thousands of clinical, epidemiological, and basic science studies. Ultimately, you have to sort this our for yourself. I am happy to help, but I believe the answers are pretty much at your finger tips.<br /><br />You also might find my book helpful in understanding AIDS denialism. Links for the book are at the top of this blog and all of the royalties from Denying AIDS are donated to buy HIV meds in Africa.<br /><br />Thanks for visiting.Seth Kalichmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01715826946361587097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-57277841833997184292009-10-29T12:25:09.759-04:002009-10-29T12:25:09.759-04:00As someone on the fence, I'd like to see someo...As someone on the fence, I'd like to see someone actually make an argument to try to convince me. All I see here is insulting dismissal of AIDS deniers and comparisons to Holocaust deniers. When I come at an argument from a third party perspective, the first thing I look for is which side is shouting insults? Since, they are usually the ones that are wrong. If it is so obvious that HIV causes AIDS, then you should be able to simply present the facts instead of just trying to undermine the credibility of anyone who doesn't agree with you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-43662297808093153712009-10-17T10:28:32.371-04:002009-10-17T10:28:32.371-04:00It does seem unfair to pull people’s words out of ...It does seem unfair to pull people’s words out of context. Imagine only showing part of what I said in House of Numbers, such as the line…<br /><br />“I was shocked and devastated and horrified when the results came back positive. It was one of those moments that everyone fears… it was one of those moments that everyone fears their whole life.”<br /><br />Can you imagine a remix of House of Numbers that actually makes Peter Duesberg sounds like HIV treatments save lives? Hmmm, a remix of House of Numbers, whose idea was that?Maggiore’s Ghostnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-79622172077922006452009-10-08T11:54:02.105-04:002009-10-08T11:54:02.105-04:00First of all, I love the question to Bauer about h...First of all, I love the question to Bauer about having your picture made with him. Very Kathy Griffin!<br />Also, I think myself and as many people who have been on HIV meds at least ten years or more should show up with our lab results showing our liver enzymes intact, high T~Cells, low viral load, no wasting syndrome, no body dysmorphia and show them just how "toxic" those meds are.<br />JTDjtdeshonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881997315363701292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-4332054925996492592009-10-08T09:14:41.021-04:002009-10-08T09:14:41.021-04:00The movie itself is like a 90 minute long denialis...The movie itself is like a 90 minute long denialist blog posting. Or like a 90 minute long Celia Farber article. Has anyone tried to contact the credited "writer," Llewellyn Chapman?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-25340319959098556152009-10-08T08:30:36.113-04:002009-10-08T08:30:36.113-04:00So where have Michael and Bill gone?
As the Denial...So where have Michael and Bill gone?<br />As the Denialism blog taught us long ago, denialists create logical fallacies. reading the above comments, the all too familiar pattern is repeated;<br /><br />Denialist (Bill) says something wacky...<br /><br />Commenter or blogger (Snout -- or Poodlestomper/Chris/JTD) corrects their mistake...<br /><br />Bill says same thing, changes argument slightly...<br /><br />Snout again corrects their mistake...<br /><br />Bill says something even wackier, says it disproves all of a field of science...<br /><br />Snout, exasperated, corrects it and threatens disemvowelment...<br /><br />Bill restates original wacky argument...<br /><br />Snout's head explodes, calls denialist an idiot.<br /><br />Bill says he won because commenter or blogger resorted to ad hominem.<br /><br />Bill disappears. <br /><br />So predictable.Seth Kalichmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01715826946361587097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-12760560514950936692009-10-08T08:28:44.377-04:002009-10-08T08:28:44.377-04:00Anonymous,
It gets better. Not only did Maggior...Anonymous,<br /> It gets better. Not only did Maggiore time travel for her tests she also seems to change birthdays. One of the tests (the third result they show) is for a 40 year old female. Since Magiore was born 07/25/1956 and the test was from 9/23/1993 she would have been 37 at the time. It makes me wonder how many other bogus "documents" HON used to try to support their BS. In any case it certainly demonstrates a high probability of outright (and poorly planned) deception on HON's part or at the very least an illiteracy concerning dates. Of course I'm willing to be convinced otherwise ;-)Poodle Stomperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14071485010133858924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-75480625072827091332009-10-08T01:40:12.927-04:002009-10-08T01:40:12.927-04:00Perhaps you can get a photograph with Bauer if you...Perhaps you can get a photograph with Bauer if you wear this to the RA group delusion session.<br /><br />http://cgi.ebay.com.my/NEW-Pink-Blue-Loch-Ness-Monster-Mascot-costume_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ160223514452<br /><br />For those of you who can read German the Esowatch website is a good source of background material for some of the German cranks<br /><br />http://esowatch.com/index.php?title=Hans_Tolzin<br /><br />Denies that influenzavirus and poliovirus cause disease. Supporter of Germanic New Medicine. Thinks barcodes have a negative effect on foods and that laser scanned products lose energy.<br /><br />The man is a total nutter and yet Bauer is happy to cite him, an astrologer and a mathematician as experts in immunology.Chris Noblenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-29441936293538000242009-10-08T00:05:39.345-04:002009-10-08T00:05:39.345-04:00Snout
Henry Bauer is not hoaxing, I think that is...Snout<br /><br />Henry Bauer is not hoaxing, I think that is for definite. <br /><br />Bauer has spent his entire carrer being a big green monster in a very small loch. He has always had a following of a few off beat scientific explorers. Somehow he got into AIDS Denial and has attracted an even larger crowd. <br /><br />He is like Fred Leuchter who lived in obscurity until becoming intoxicated with attention from Holocaust Deniers. <br /><br />His craving for attention seems to drive him. So you may ask him how he first got into AIDS. That would be interesting to know.<br /><br />I envy anyone who can attend RA unknown. I blew that when Joey came out. So for me, RA will probably be more contentious. <br /><br />I doubt Henry will talk to me. But if he does, I plan to ask him 2 things: (1) Can he answer the question posed to him by a college undergrad regarding his use of gonorrhea and Syphilis as STDs that do not line up with HIV epi-stats rather than HSV or Hep-B? And (2) Can I get a picture with him to add to my collection?Seth Kalichmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01715826946361587097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-24773668081620237572009-10-07T23:53:20.798-04:002009-10-07T23:53:20.798-04:00Poodle Stomper, you're right. According to the...Poodle Stomper, you're right. According to the film, Maggiore traveled back in time and took the 9/23/93 test "again" on 8/5/93.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-65449615377449958522009-10-07T18:56:43.251-04:002009-10-07T18:56:43.251-04:00"Perhaps Bauer really is doing a Sokal."...<i>"Perhaps Bauer really is doing a Sokal."<br /></i><br /><br />I've wondered this about Henry too. His claims seem to be getting more and more bizarre, almost as if he is begging for someone to call him on an elaborate hoax. As one of the few people in the world who's actually read <i>The Origin, Persistence and Failings of HIV/AIDS Theory</i>, that's been my impression...<br /><br />...on which note, supposing a certain occasional blogger was attending RA09 (discreetly under his offline identity), what is the one question he/she could ask Henry snout to face that would make it clear whether he is serious or merely pulling off an extended Sokal to keep him entertained during his retirement?Snoutnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-58775110084785688942009-10-07T03:08:05.143-04:002009-10-07T03:08:05.143-04:00Martin Delaney, Christine Maggiore, Hank Wilson (T...Martin Delaney, Christine Maggiore, Hank Wilson (Their deaths were unrelated to HIV)<br /><br />Yeah. Leung isn't denying anything!Chris Noblenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-72494632073898682422009-10-07T03:06:19.245-04:002009-10-07T03:06:19.245-04:00Bauer is now citing Hans Tolzin as an expert on im...Bauer is now citing Hans Tolzin as an expert on immunology.<br /><br />Tolzin is a qualified dairy farmer and a general-purpose anti-vaccination germ-theory-of-disease-denying crank.<br /><br />Is there no limit to Bauer's stupidity? Perhaps Bauer really is doing a Sokal.<br /><br />I wonder whether Bill will complain about Tolzin's lack of relevant credentials.Chris Noblenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-66404501459536059372009-10-05T21:17:25.645-04:002009-10-05T21:17:25.645-04:00"Is Christine Maggiore's convoluted HIV t..."<i>Is Christine Maggiore's convoluted HIV testing story relevant? </i>"<br /><br />Not really, no. There is no doubt that she died of AIDS (except to those in extreme denial). I'm just curious whether the shuffling of test dates means that HON used non-Maggiore tests (which would be deceptive), whether the tests are hers and she lied, or something else. But no, it doesn't change reality nor the fact that she did indeed die of AIDS.Poodle Stomperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14071485010133858924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-2531221980006924792009-10-05T09:01:57.032-04:002009-10-05T09:01:57.032-04:00Is Christine Maggiore's convoluted HIV testing...Is Christine Maggiore's convoluted HIV testing story relevant? Her death certificate says she died of conditions that are definitely the result of AIDS. So who cares about her lies?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-60443284774591282592009-10-05T08:58:31.100-04:002009-10-05T08:58:31.100-04:00I can only tell you what the movies showed and wha...I can only tell you what the movies showed and what Maggiore said.<br /><br />1. Took test to be socially responsible 2/24/92 was told positive. Took result to AIDS specialist and told it did not mean she was positive.<br /><br />2. Retested and results shown are Interderm, but no name or date shown<br /><br />3. 9/23/93 retested confirmed positive – no name, patient ID<br /><br />4. 8/5/93 retested HIV negative Maggiore on result <br /><br />5. 9/29/93 retested confirmed positive, no name but in Santa Monica<br /><br /><br />That is what they show and it matches up with her story as she tells it… bear in mind this happens really fast. It requires a team of people with years of extensive training in note taking to get this stuff down. But I am 100% confident it is correct. <br /><br />If we only believe those that have her name visible...we have<br /><br />2/92 HIV+<br />8/93 HIV-<br />9/93 HIV+<br /><br />The details of the tests and their results are shown in the my above comment. You guys can sort this out of you want. Just remember, movies are magic. If you need help working out the biochemistry, I am sure Bill can join in.Seth Kalichmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01715826946361587097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-34341070412120095732009-10-05T08:17:07.919-04:002009-10-05T08:17:07.919-04:00Seth,
I have to ask this at the risk of sounding...Seth,<br /> I have to ask this at the risk of sounding silly; Are the dates shown on her tests in HON correct? The way you have it written out is:<br /><br />9/23/93 - Test "1" Positive<br />8/5/93 -Test "2" Negative<br />9/29/93 - Test "3" Positive<br /><br />Put in the correct chronological order that would be:<br />8/5/93 -Test "2" Negative<br />9/23/93 - Test "1" Positive<br />9/29/93 - Test "3" Positive<br /><br />If you haven't made an error on the dates that would imply that either Maggiore lied about the tests (and HON wasn't smart enough to be able to to tell dates), made a mistake, or something doesn't jive about her story. Could you double check those dates and let us know what you find? Do you know if she ever published her test results publicly?Poodle Stomperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14071485010133858924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-62673197430778313592009-10-05T00:12:46.442-04:002009-10-05T00:12:46.442-04:00Maggiore makes a few appearances. The classis is a...Maggiore makes a few appearances. The classis is about 30 minutes into the movie when diagnoses and testing are questioned. <br /><br />“In 1992 I was encouraged by a doctor to take what is called an HIV test as a matter of social responsibility and I was shocked and devastated and horrified when the results came back positive. It was one of those moments that everyone fears… it was one of those moments that everyone fears their whole life..a week later I take the same test to an AIDS specialist (they show on screen a test from 2/24/92 for a Dr. Heberg that show a positive ELISA and Positive Westrn Blot. Reactive for P24 and gp120/160, non-reactive p31, p41, p51, p55, p66) he looks at it and says ‘this isn’t a positive test. I don’t know what this test means.” <br /><br /><br />This is a remarkable segment because this woman has died of AIDS shows and lived in denial shows us her indisputably positive HIV test result. It is a beautiful depiction of why we call this denialism. It is an encapsulated delusion. She was perfectly able to refute the facts staring her in the face and was able to find a quack in Peter Duesberg to corroborate her delusion. Amazing stuff! <br /><br />Now, a few minutes later she reappears and tells us she went and got retested and the results came back from the lab marked indeterminant. <br /><br />We are shown a section of lab report, this time no name or date are shown. The results are: <br /><br />HIV-1 REACTIVE<br />Western Blot indeterm<br />GAG: p55,or p24 or p18 REACTIVE<br />ENV : gp160 or gp120 or gp41 REACTIVE<br />POL: p65 or p51 or p32 NAGATIVE<br /><br />She says she got retested again right away and her results come back positive.<br />We are shown a test from 9/23/93 Patient is a 40 year old female thwe Dr. is Wiesinger. No patient name, just an ID number NCL F46092<br /><br />Western Blot Positive – p17, p24, p31, gp41, p51, p55,p66, gp120/160 – all REACTIVE<br /><br />She then says, took it again, came back negative<br />We see a bottom of a test result, this time patient name is Maggiore, Cristina on 8/5/93<br />The results is <br />HIV non-reactive<br /><br />She says “I took it again, positive’<br />They show us a result from 9/29/93 with no patient name shown and no Patient number in the visible box. <br />It is from Santa Monica and the result is:<br /><br />HIV-1 IgG Confirmation IB Positive<br />HIV- AB IgG EIA 9.9 <br /><br />About an hour into the movie Maggiore appears in what one could think is the very first time she ever spoke about her ordeal. It starts with a still of her, you know, one of those black and white shots by the stair case in the glory days when she was healthy. She says<br /><br />“When I was told I was HIV positive I accepted it…but only by having the courage to open minds { she then appears live and under her name it says that she tested HIV Positive in 1992, she releases a pained sigh) and open hearts {gets teary} to answer these questions are we ever going to know how to help people. ..how to do what we need to do to help people. <br /><br />At the end, in the credits roll, Director Leung includes the following<br /><br />The filmmakers acknowledge with sadness the passing of three generous contributors to House of Numbers before the completion of the film<br />Martin Delaney, Christine Maggiore, Hank Wilson (Their deaths were unrelated to HIV)<br /><br />I am telling you that you gotta see this film....really amazing stuff!Seth Kalichmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01715826946361587097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-25419630164367281522009-10-05T00:06:10.399-04:002009-10-05T00:06:10.399-04:00Bill, your google skills are as poor as your scien...Bill, your google skills are as poor as your scientific understanding.<br /><br />You brought up the point of credentials and qualifications. What are yours? Or are they suddenly not important? What are Michael Geiger's credentials?<br /><br />I tired of the silly weasel worded Denialist rhetoric. You're not criticizing Gallo. You're just saying HON is a good film. Celia Farber and Brent Leung aren't denying anything. They're just asking questions. The Perthies are claiming that HIV doesn't exist. They're just saying theres no evidence for it's existence.<br /><br />Yeah right. Ahmadinejad isn't denying anything. He's just asking questions. Ahmadinejad isn't saying that the Holocaust never happened. He's just saying that there's no evidence.Chris Noblenoreply@blogger.com