tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post1359807598698651374..comments2024-02-25T14:29:44.021-05:00Comments on Denying AIDS and other oddities: Luc Montagnier: Off the Deep End?Seth Kalichmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01715826946361587097noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-20875400163968052572012-02-29T13:25:17.584-05:002012-02-29T13:25:17.584-05:00SETH K. WANTS TO BUY AFRICA A COCKTAIL!
Seth says ...SETH K. WANTS TO BUY AFRICA A COCKTAIL!<br />Seth says that he donates all the money from his book sales to get all the dirt poor HIV positive Aficans aboard the AZT pain-train? Well, I highly doubt that even at a measley forty cents per. day that your book sales total in full would even be enough to kill one HIV positive pygmy "if they could actually even find one HIV positive pygmy,that is" doc. <br />Instead, why don't you just donate all the money that you make off all your pharma and biotech Co. stocks "insider trading" to that most honorable cause of yours instead Seth? You would be dropping them like flies over there "even at low dose" if chose to go that route! Boy Howdy!!<br />Ponder that one for a spell!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-1719171848465068532011-01-07T19:34:58.452-05:002011-01-07T19:34:58.452-05:00I didn't want to derail the comments on any ne...I didn't want to derail the comments on any newer posts but I really wanted to share this, and it at least fits with the context of this update. <br /><br />Yesterday, a host on 2UE (a metropolitan right-wing talk radio station based in Sydney) <a href="http://www.2ue.com.au/blogs/2ue-blog/to-vaccinate-or-not/20110107-19i9a.html" rel="nofollow">conducted an interview with one of the most prominent members of the anti-vaccine movement in Australia</a>. Well, interview may not be quite the right word. I normally don't listen to Australian talk radio since their political coverage is hilariously right-wing, but this article is absolute gold. It's refreshing to hear the objective truth from the media, especially such a major and influential outlet as 2UE.Lukehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16126035606991777869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-6199858616117134212010-12-15T09:55:04.068-05:002010-12-15T09:55:04.068-05:00Thanks Snout - I'm going to read the other one...Thanks Snout - I'm going to read the other ones now. I appreciated when Hoofnagle et Hoofnagle said that denialists will often compare themselves to Galileo. That's what Clarkie always does! Except his blatherings are also incoherent rants (like Bill).Kralc Rekabhttp://google.com/profiles/clarkwarrenbakernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-46630784372441740842010-12-15T04:13:59.190-05:002010-12-15T04:13:59.190-05:00Kralc, the Hoofnagles' article dates back to t...Kralc, the Hoofnagles' article dates back to the olden days when denialists used to try to actually <i>construct</i> their idiotic arguments - using the standard rhetorical devices of Conspiracy, Selectivity (cherry-picking), Fake experts, Impossible expectations (also known as moving goalposts), and General fallacies of logic.<br /><br />Hoofnagle et Hoofnagle 2007 (1) is of course the definitive primer on the subject.<br /><br />Caj 2009 (2) and (3) is also essential reading for anyone thinking about engaging denialists on the internet.<br /><br />Unfortunately, the quality of arguments by the denialst trolls who frequent this blog rarely achieve even that level of sophistication these days. They are mostly just low-level drunken, incoherent, stream-of-consciousness rants (see Anonymous and Bill, above for examples). They're no fun.<br /><br />(1) http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/about.php<br />(2) http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/6/5/739123/-Denial-Movements-101:introduction-to-argumentoids<br />(3) http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/7/29/758787/-Denial-Movements-102:-crazy-on-purposeSnouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00315836146914661895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-52587037902074320842010-12-14T14:46:04.255-05:002010-12-14T14:46:04.255-05:00Just came across a fantastic article on denialism!...Just came across a fantastic article on denialism!!<br /><br />http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/about.phpKralc Rekabhttp://google.com/profiles/clarkwarrenbakernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-5681248379821575852010-12-14T14:31:50.792-05:002010-12-14T14:31:50.792-05:00I wonder how Kim Bannon is doing? Any news on her ...I wonder how Kim Bannon is doing? Any news on her situation?Kralc Rekabhttp://google.com/profiles/clarkwarrenbakernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-23619446427561180252010-12-13T02:39:35.874-05:002010-12-13T02:39:35.874-05:00Dr. Alex, obviously $eth acting out his alter ego ...Dr. Alex, obviously $eth acting out his alter ego as a psychiatrist making diagnoses once more, not quite as limp as Joseph Newton though. Just how many multiple personalities do you have $eth? I'd think you should take some of your own medicine before attempting to give it away.<br /><br />And where's DeShong, he even named his dog after you, or was that Olivia, or did you come up with Newton from Olivia, oh it all gets so incestuous with you orthodoxies forming circles everywhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-77161147274980871632010-12-12T10:55:09.863-05:002010-12-12T10:55:09.863-05:00I wonder how Karri Stokely is doing? She wrote on...I wonder how Karri Stokely is doing? She wrote on Nov 26 that she had done 21 hyperbaric oxygen treatments with no progress. HOWEVER, she wrote, the next 20-30 she will be cured. Well, it's been an additional 15, which means she should be half way to cured. I wonder when she will update us with the good news?<br />JTDjtdeshonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881997315363701292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-81579184156518279952010-12-12T10:26:29.010-05:002010-12-12T10:26:29.010-05:00THOCOA
There is half hope for your denialism...
Y...THOCOA<br />There is half hope for your denialism...<br /><br />You should take your Thorazine. It costs practically nothing and will help clear your thoughts. You know, the ones about how you think everyone keeps looking at you because you know THE truth.<br /> <br />As for your stupidity, there is no treatment for that.Dr. Alex Z Trumpetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-51904482906350398682010-12-12T08:43:36.118-05:002010-12-12T08:43:36.118-05:00Seth - wait! They also can get behind highly quali...Seth - wait! They also can get behind highly qualified fired ex-cops with no education like Clarkie Baker and others who deny global warming, call Pres Obama a Kenyan Marxist, etc!<br />Of course! If you follow science - you are a sheep. But if you follow nonsense, you are.....uhhhhh.....Kralc Rekabhttp://google.com/profiles/clarkwarrenbakernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-281207120860095072010-12-12T04:54:28.038-05:002010-12-12T04:54:28.038-05:00THOCOA
The High Orthodox Church of AIDS
Donate t...THOCOA<br /><br />The High Orthodox Church of AIDS<br /><br />Donate today! money urgently required to run a dubious drug trial in a backwater African Nation. Results will be posted....or not, depending on the outcome.<br /><br />2 for 1 Neviripine deal, today only!<br /><br />Did I mention obesity is scientifically proven to be caused by a retro virus and not calorific intake, it's the virus stupid not a lifestyle decision. We do however have a treatment. AZT, guaranteed to waste away those unwanted pounds.<br /><br />latest news! XMRV, linked to......ah nothing at all.<br /><br />Are they called retro virus' because they all appeared in the 70's and 80's? I saw an EM of one budding the other day, it was wearing a paisley shirt no less, we isolated it by centrifuging on a mirror ball under strobe lights.<br /><br />Start an orthodox blog, money available from the NIH under the health communications grants scheme, get yours now.<br /><br />Bye $ethAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-36975264174739586242010-12-11T17:35:51.353-05:002010-12-11T17:35:51.353-05:00Me, I will follow the science. Thank you very much...<i>Me, I will follow the science. Thank you very much. </i><br /><br />Hah!LOL!<br /><br />You fools don't follow science -- you are dogmatic sheep. Montagnier already has said HIV is necessary, but no sufficient to cause AIDS and he has said that if you have a good immune system you can easily thwart this "deadly" retrovirus, that can't even be found, except indirect surrogate markers.<br /><br />But, what do I know? I'm just..<br /><br />Your friend, BillBillnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-54448514615136993842010-12-11T16:42:00.409-05:002010-12-11T16:42:00.409-05:00Anonymous
Go ahead and swim up steam, following Du...Anonymous<br />Go ahead and swim up steam, following Duesberg, Rasnick, and the other two Psychotics with advanced degrees. But get behind Crowe and Bauer, and the other pseudoscientists. And while you there, pay your respects to the lost too soon Maggiore, the unnecessarily lost baby Eliza Jane, and the soon to be lost Stokely.<br /><br />Now go, please.<br /> <br />Me, I will follow the science. Thank you very much.Seth Kalichmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01715826946361587097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-41033343496475921722010-12-11T14:40:08.441-05:002010-12-11T14:40:08.441-05:00I just love that Montagnier says that water has a ...I just love that Montagnier says that water has a memory. If that is true, it means water has a higher IQ than most denialists. Actually, even if it's not true, water still has a higher IQ than most denialists!<br />JTDjtdeshonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09881997315363701292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-45057818343595353132010-12-11T12:43:34.716-05:002010-12-11T12:43:34.716-05:00Yes, Indeed! Montagnier was, is, and always will b...Yes, Indeed! Montagnier was, is, and always will be a bit Bat-Shit Crazy, though I don't think he is or ever was quite as whacked out as his comrades in arms, such as Gallo, Fauci, JP Moore, along with their followers, such as Seth, Snout, poodles, J Todd, et al). <br /><br />What a bunch of herd following sheeple.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-43916617257083846562010-12-11T09:28:53.369-05:002010-12-11T09:28:53.369-05:00"And if Gallo said that HIV requires co-facto..."<i>And if Gallo said that HIV requires co-factors to initiate AIDS, then I think most sensible people would respond, "Interesting claim - now what evidence is there to support such a statement?" And such a claim would be accepted or rejected based on that evidence</i>"<br /><br />Bingo! The problem is that denialists don't work that way. They would prefer to rely on who they want to believe and build conspiracy theories rather than look at actual evidence. The evidence that Montagnier produced on HIV has been repeated by other labs and has stood the test of time. Thus it is accepted. The evidence for memory of water, ect...well not so much.Poodle Stomperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14071485010133858924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-11918712779644238502010-12-11T02:46:57.614-05:002010-12-11T02:46:57.614-05:00Here's a link from the vaunted orthodoxy site,...<i>Here's a link from the vaunted orthodoxy site, The Body, in which the specialist notes a difference in how fast HIV progresss in HIV1 verse HIV2.</i> <br /><br />Tony, HIV-1 and HIV-2 are different viruses.<br /><br />You seem to be saying that HIV-1 is western HIV and HIV-2 is the African version. This is, yet again, nonsense.<br /><br />Both viruses originate in Africa, from different clades of SIV endemic to non-human primates.<br /><br />HIV-1 is the more common cause of AIDS (by orders of magnitude) not only in the west, but also throughout Africa. HIV-2 is largely restricted to parts of west Africa and southern Europe, but it is not the most common cause of AIDS anywhere.<br /><br />I think you are getting confused.<br /><br /><i>Good to see Seth open up an attack on Prof Luc then go in to back peddle mode only to be attacked by Snout the AIDS attack dog.</i><br /><br />Err... Anonymous I was trying (perhaps futilely) to correct some confused misinformation by Tony. I don't always agree with Seth (or with anyone else necessarily), but I certainly haven't "attacked" anything he's said here. Trolling Fail.<br /><br /><i>Fact; there are vast differences between African and Western AIDS and the course of morbidity/mortality. To state otherwise Snout simply illustrates his total adherence to dogma and not common sense or published fact.</i><br /><br />Well no, I cited one of numerous epidemiological studies providing data on progression rates for HIV among untreated Africans compared to untreated western cohorts. You on the other hand have simply repeated bullshit and insisted this is "Fact".<br /><br /><i>Good to see the orthodox run true to form attempting to attack Montagnier in another forum just as they do when anyone strays from the fold of their pet beliefs. You could bet that even if Gallo came out tomorrow and said that HIV required Co-factors to initiate AIDS, he'd be subject to the same ridicule.</i><br /><br />No one is "ridiculing" Montagnier here for his views on HIV. And if Gallo said that HIV requires co-factors to initiate AIDS, then I think most sensible people would respond, "Interesting claim - now what evidence is there to support such a statement?" And such a claim would be accepted or rejected based on that evidence, not just because of what Gallo or Fauci or Montagnier or anyone else thought.<br /><br />Of course, considering the evidence for a claim rather than the person making the claim is anathema to ranting nutters like Anonymous.Snouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00315836146914661895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-78582902465407961712010-12-11T00:01:16.733-05:002010-12-11T00:01:16.733-05:00Hey, How come Luc won the Nobel Prize, but Gallo t...Hey, How come Luc won the Nobel Prize, but Gallo the Rat the did not?<br /><br />--Your friend, Bill<br /><br />p.s. I like Luc -- he's a free-thinkerBillnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-72347061995626429012010-12-10T21:58:03.146-05:002010-12-10T21:58:03.146-05:00Good to see Seth open up an attack on Prof Luc the...Good to see Seth open up an attack on Prof Luc then go in to back peddle mode only to be attacked by Snout the AIDS attack dog.<br /><br />Fact; there are vast differences between African and Western AIDS and the course of morbidity/mortality. To state otherwise Snout simply illustrates his total adherence to dogma and not common sense or published fact. This shows his true nature as an activist.<br /><br />Good to see the orthodox run true to form attempting to attack Montagnier in another forum just as they do when anyone strays from the fold of their pet beliefs. You could bet that even if Gallo came out tomorrow and said that HIV required Co-factors to initiate AIDS, he'd be subject to the same ridicule. This is one of the reasons this sole HIV/AIDS paradox and "it's the virus stupid" mentality has endured. It's a total Bushism where you're either with us or against us and a prevalent quirk of the US mentality on any subject. It's this total inability to think in shades of grey and have an arrogant self righteous opinion that is preventing any major breakthroughs in this horrid disease.<br /><br />The reality is that only the US is actually suffering from HIV, the rest of the planet just gets sick. I'm sure the retro-boffins will be attempting madly to pin Autism on a retro virus too, just as they are on obesity, diabetes, arthritis yada yada yada, they don't "know" anything else to do.<br /><br />The saddest fucks of all are the parasites like Seth trolling the grants system to make their livings off this misery.<br /><br />Shame, shame, shameAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-72160301679175268972010-12-10T19:14:20.937-05:002010-12-10T19:14:20.937-05:00Here's a link from the vaunted orthodoxy site,...Here's a link from the vaunted orthodoxy site, The Body, in which the specialist notes a difference in how fast HIV progresss in HIV1 verse HIV2. <br /><br />I would've been more accurate if i had said there are differences in HIV, not differences in AIDS.<br /><br />http://www.thebody.com/Forums/AIDS/Meds/Archive/Misc/Q171744.htmlTonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15807527912579117504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-57798888967768600382010-12-10T06:04:10.412-05:002010-12-10T06:04:10.412-05:00One need only compare African AIDS verse AIDS in t...<i>One need only compare African AIDS verse AIDS in the West to see vast differences, for example, the speed of morbidity...</i><br /><br />That's nonsense. Median survival with untreated HIV infection is almost identical in Africa as in the West. And survival with AIDS is very similar too, when you take into account differences in the stage at which it is diagnosed and the availability of treatments for the opportunistic diseases.<br /><br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18032940<br /><br />The major differences in progression to AIDS and survival with AIDS are related to access to quality antiretroviral treatment, and other medical care.<br /><br /><i>...the associated symptoms, even how its diagnosed.</i><br /><br />Again, this is rubbish. South Africa, Botswana and the other high prevalence countries of southern Africa use the same opportunistic illness criteria that are used in the west in the diagnosis of AIDS. They also use multi-test algorithms to diagnose HIV infection, although the preferred tests vary from place to place, just as they vary in Western countries as well. The US alone has more than a dozen different FDA-approved HIV test systems.<br /><br />The major difference in AIDS-defining opportunistic disease patterns between Africa and the West is with respect to tuberculosis. TB is rare among westerners with AIDS because very few westerners carry latent TB or are exposed to it in their daily life - it is virtually extinct in the first world. However, it is an extremely common infection in subsaharan Africa, and Africans with AIDS are therefore at much higher risk of developing active disease from daily exposure or from reactivation of latent infection.<br /><br /><i>And while true that Montagnier claims a link between HIV and AIDS, he also suggests that HIV infection alone is not sufficient to cause AIDS by itself.</i><br /><br />He does? In 2010? What other factor or factors do Montagnier claim are <i>necessary</i> to cause AIDS, other than HIV infection?Snouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00315836146914661895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-16669899959545802172010-12-09T23:07:33.469-05:002010-12-09T23:07:33.469-05:00Tony
The underlying cause of AIDS is the same..in ...Tony<br />The underlying cause of AIDS is the same..in every case of AIDS (regardless of the opportunistic illness) there is a compromised immune system - most obviously depleted CD4/T-Helper lymphocytes. But you already know this. <br /><br />I should probably watch my words a little more carefully...the opportunistic illnesses do differ from place to place and population to population. So AIDS in Africa is different than AIDS in the US in that respect. BUT the cause of AIDS, HIV infection, is the same and it is not so different place to place.<br /><br />As long as the HIV+ person is informed and not misinformed, or buying into myths and pseudoscience, I agree that taking lifelong drugs with serious side-effects may not be the thing for you. I respect that. But the choice should be clear - not confused by the rantings of crazy people on the internet.Seth Kalichmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01715826946361587097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-88929459286144062122010-12-09T20:08:02.550-05:002010-12-09T20:08:02.550-05:00Well, i do have contention with you Seth, when you...Well, i do have contention with you Seth, when you say there are not different kinds of AIDS. There are... One need only compare African AIDS verse AIDS in the West to see vast differences, for example, the speed of morbidity, the associated symptoms, even how its diagnosed. Even AIDS soley in the West is different, when people are dying of vastly different reasons... You can argue that the cause is the same, but then how do you know that the cause is not also the same for all autism cases?<br /><br />And while true that Montagnier claims a link between HIV and AIDS, he also suggests that HIV infection alone is not sufficient to cause AIDS by itself. A HIV+ person needs to consider nutrition, exercise, and all that other good stuff before feeling the need to go on a lifelong regimen of toxic meds.Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15807527912579117504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-13808277762265933682010-12-09T15:49:06.836-05:002010-12-09T15:49:06.836-05:00Seth - there is nothing too logical for AIDS Denia...Seth - there is nothing too logical for AIDS Denialists. A perfect example is a recent email that Celia "Batshit Crazy" Farber sent yesterday. As the email shows, she is back to the attention-whoring self that she never grew out of. The less relevant these fools become, the more desperate they show themselves to be:<br /><br /><br /><br />Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 22:58:20 -0800 (PST)<br />From: Celia Farber <br />Subject: Re: 23rd World AIDS Day- we are united!<br />To:<br /><br /><br />A conservative estimate holds that 300,000 were killed by AZT alone. It doesn't surprise me that you are being driven mad by guilt, for what you have been complicit in.<br /> <br />The crap you write is not to be believed. Do you believe it?<br /><br />Stop insulting the dead, and their families, who know all to well what killed them.<br /><br /> There is no monetary compensation possible for the chemical murder of loved ones, cut down in the prime of their lives.<br />You people are mad.Kralc Rekabhttp://google.com/profiles/clarkwarrenbakernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-633581663557175057.post-54188847213228101982010-12-09T12:22:18.017-05:002010-12-09T12:22:18.017-05:00Thank you Joanne
I think this is all very interes...Thank you Joanne<br /><br />I think this is all very interesting.<br />I posted it here because Dr. Montagnier is an interesting figure in AIDS denialism. He has certainly endorsed some fringe ideas, like homeopathy, but he has never suggested that HIV does not cause AIDS. And yet, AIDS Denialists use him in their rather insane argument that HIV is harmless. <br /><br />So what about autism?<br /><br />Unlike AIDS, we do not know what causes autism. Unlike AIDS, every possible alternative explanation has not been ruled out. <br />Unlike AIDS, there are many forms of autism..hence a spectrum. <br /><br />I think examining all ideas is essential, even those that seem unlikely...just not over and over and over again. Lets not leave any stone unturned. But once turned, lets move onto the next stone.<br /><br />My AIDS Denialist readers may jump in here ...but maybe not. This could be just too logical for even them to weigh in on.<br /><br />Thanks again!Seth Kalichmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01715826946361587097noreply@blogger.com